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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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May 12 new

(Quote) Ronald-937125 said: The first paragraph states that homosexual acts can't be approved. If they are chast...
(Quote) Ronald-937125 said:



The first paragraph states that homosexual acts can't be approved. If they are chaste, as I said above, I don't think that they could be called homosexual.
The second paragraph is about tendencies, and these people can be Christian because they have not commited homosexual acts.
If homosexuals think they are Christian, they are wrong since their homosexual acts can't be approved.
Their is no such thing as children being homosexuals. Sex is largely a learned behavior...married homosexuals with children should be considered sexual pedators as pedophiles are, since they would probably encourage homosexual behavior. Pedophiles aren't born that way as well; homosexuals learn their behavior.
Bestiality was also popular when there were more farms; that’s not much different than committing homosexual acts.

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"The first paragraph states that homosexual acts can't be approved. If they are chaste, as I said above, I don't think that they could be called homosexual." Of course they still are homosexual, despite practicing abstinence. Homosexuality is not solely focused on the sexual act. It is about being primarily interested in partners of the same sex.

"The second paragraph is about tendencies, and these people can be Christian because they have not commited homosexual acts.
If homosexuals think they are Christian, they are wrong since their homosexual acts can't be approved." Any kind of fornication, homosexual or not, isn't approved. Period! But is it really within your authority to define weather someone is Christian or not?

"Their is no such thing as children being homosexuals. Sex is largely a learned behavior...married homosexuals with children should be considered sexual pedators as pedophiles are, since they would probably encourage homosexual behavior. Pedophiles aren't born that way as well; homosexuals learn their behavior." Feel absolutely free to share your knowledge with the scientific community so they can stop wasting time searching for physiological reasons for homosexuality and other variations is sexuality. You would do the world a great service by sharing this.

May 12 new

[quote]Peter-933860 said:

"The first paragraph states that homosexual acts can't be approved. If they are chaste, as I said above, I don't think that they could be called homosexual."
Of course they still are homosexual, despite practicing abstinence. Homosexuality is not solely focused on the sexual act. It is about being primarily interested in partners of the same sex.

Youre not right there; no one would know if someone was interested in someone of the same sex if they didn't take some action; they wouldn't be homosexuals and would have the opportunity to grow in there knowledge of sexuality. It's your attitude that helps create the problem; you should have the attitude of loving your brother and helping him to achieve a healthy lifestyle and not classifying someone as a homosexual.

"The second paragraph is about tendencies, and these people can be Christian because they have not commited homosexual acts.
If homosexuals think they are Christian, they are wrong since their homosexual acts can't be approved."

Any kind of fornication, homosexual or not, isn't approved. Period!
But is it really within your authority to define weather someone is Christian or not?

It's not within your authority to define that a homosexual can be a Christian when their acts can't be approved. An adulterer can confess the sin and not be an adulterer....but according to you a homosexual is always a deviant even though he might confess his sin. As I said before, homosexuals can change and they don't always have to be classified as being abnormal as you keep doing.

"Their is no such thing as children being homosexuals. Sex is largely a learned behavior...married homosexuals with children should be considered sexual pedators as pedophiles are, since they would probably encourage homosexual behavior. Pedophiles aren't born that way as well; homosexuals learn their behavior."

Feel absolutely free to share your knowledge with the scientific community so they can stop wasting time searching for physiological reasons for homosexuality and other variations is sexuality. You would do the world a great service by sharing this.

The knowledge has always been known, that's why it used to considered deviant behavior rather than a sex preference. If the scientific community is wasting their time on this, I hope it's not funded by the government who is running too many socialist programs right now.


May 15 new

wave

May 18 new
(quote) Ronald-937125 said: [quote]Peter-933860 said: "The first paragraph states that homosexual acts can't be approved. If they are chaste, as I said above, I don't think that they could be called homosexual."
Of course they still are homosexual, despite practicing abstinence. Homosexuality is not solely focused on the sexual act. It is about being primarily interested in partners of the same sex.

Youre not right there; no one would know if someone was interested in someone of the same sex if they didn't take some action; they wouldn't be homosexuals and would have the opportunity to grow in there knowledge of sexuality. It's your attitude that helps create the problem; you should have the attitude of loving your brother and helping him to achieve a healthy lifestyle and not classifying someone as a homosexual.
"The second paragraph is about tendencies, and these people can be Christian because they have not commited homosexual acts.
If homosexuals think they are Christian, they are wrong since their homosexual acts can't be approved."

Any kind of fornication, homosexual or not, isn't approved. Period!
But is it really within your authority to define weather someone is Christian or not?

It's not within your authority to define that a homosexual can be a Christian when their acts can't be approved. An adulterer can confess the sin and not be an adulterer....but according to you a homosexual is always a deviant even though he might confess his sin. As I said before, homosexuals can change and they don't always have to be classified as being abnormal as you keep doing.
"Their is no such thing as children being homosexuals. Sex is largely a learned behavior...married homosexuals with children should be considered sexual pedators as pedophiles are, since they would probably encourage homosexual behavior. Pedophiles aren't born that way as well; homosexuals learn their behavior."

Feel absolutely free to share your knowledge with the scientific community so they can stop wasting time searching for physiological reasons for homosexuality and other variations is sexuality. You would do the world a great service by sharing this.

The knowledge has always been known, that's why it used to considered deviant behavior rather than a sex preference. If the scientific community is wasting their time on this, I hope it's not funded by the government who is running too many socialist programs right now.

Ronald after reading through this thread I am not sure if you are willfully mis-reading or misunderstanding the posts or you are just truly not able to grasp what is being said. Truly confused as it appears you are arguing against the wisdom of the Catechism. Chastity involves both deed and thought and the Church does call homosexuals to chastity as he does all of us. However chastity does not remove the fact that they are homosexual as that is dictated by the preference not the action.

Perhaps you have never heard of the Catholic gay group Courage that is designed to foster chastity in those of homosexual persuasions. Even a conservative school like Franciscan University has a Courage group and the people in it were there as they needed support leading chaste lives. Like an AA for unchaste behavior.

I am not sure how you can think it within your scope to judge if someone is a Christian or not. We can make a judgement on an action and say if it good or not but we cannot judge the motivations or sipiritual standing of a person's soul. That job, my dear Ronald, belongs only to God. Thankfully so.


May 18 new
(quote) Shara-929649 said: Ronald after reading through this thread I am not sure if you are willfully mis-reading or misunderstanding the posts or you are just truly not able to grasp what is being said. Truly confused as it appears you are arguing against the wisdom of the Catechism. Chastity involves both deed and thought and the Church does call homosexuals to chastity as he does all of us. However chastity does not remove the fact that they are homosexual as that is dictated by the preference not the action.

Perhaps you have never heard of the Catholic gay group Courage that is designed to foster chastity in those of homosexual persuasions. Even a conservative school like Franciscan University has a Courage group and the people in it were there as they needed support leading chaste lives. Like an AA for unchaste behavior.

I am not sure how you can think it within your scope to judge if someone is a Christian or not. We can make a judgement on an action and say if it good or not but we cannot judge the motivations or sipiritual standing of a person's soul. That job, my dear Ronald, belongs only to God. Thankfully so.


I still believe the traditional teaching about homosexuals; that it is not a preference, like being a pedophile is not a valid preference.
An adult who has sexual desire for children or who has committed the crime of sex with a child is not acceptable behavior.
An man who has a sexual desire for another man is not following Christian teaching and they can change so that they will not have that desire.
The gay fallacy is the thinking that they cant change their sexual behavior so that gives them the right to feel discriminated against. This type of thinking has only evolved within the last 30 years or so. Surely, if homosexuals were a lifestyle 100 years ago there would be more written about it, especially in places like New York where its rampant.
Jul 14 new
My suggestion is that you don't do it at all. I think they probably already know the church's teachings and don't care. Explaining it to them is not going to make any difference. Don't waste your time. I would suggest praying for them. Stay in school, do your homework, mke all A's and pray, pray, pray!
Dec 05 new
Church teaching has been quite clear on this and similar topics for a LONG time. Temptation is not a sin. We cannot control when, how, or what form the temptation that we encounter takes. It is not sinful to be attracted to a member(s) of the same sex any more than it is sinful to be attracted to someone who is married. ONLY actions can be occasions of sin, because actions is required in order for a person to express his/her free will. So, only the homosexual actions(including fantasizing)are sinful, not the attraction itself.

I also hope that everyone tries to be equally intolerant toward pre/extra marital sex and contraceptive use. Theologically speaking, If you aren't against these immoral behaviors also it is incredibly inconsistent to be against homosexual actions.... Something to think about.
Dec 05 new
(quote) Patrick-720860 said: Church teaching has been quite clear on this and similar topics for a LONG time. Temptation is not a sin. We cannot control when, how, or what form the temptation that we encounter takes. It is not sinful to be attracted to a member(s) of the same sex any more than it is sinful to be attracted to someone who is married. ONLY actions can be occasions of sin, because actions is required in order for a person to express his/her free will. So, only the homosexual actions(including fantasizing)are sinful, not the attraction itself.

I also hope that everyone tries to be equally intolerant toward pre/extra marital sex and contraceptive use. Theologically speaking, If you aren't against these immoral behaviors also it is incredibly inconsistent to be against homosexual actions.... Something to think about.
I think as the Church thinks on homosexual acts....I think it is good to recall Jesus teaching if you did it in your heart,,,,,it is like you already did it. I am not disputing that it's not quite the same in terms of confessional sin....however....I think it is greater sanctity to. It even entertain such thoughts in the mind.

all that being said.....I do not think homosexual acts can be compared to heterosexual acts....one is ordered and the other disordered, unnatural....yes all are called to chasity....but premarital natural heterosexual sex is not as bad as homosexual sex.....an adultery is horribly bad as well......

i am am against them all....but not sure which is worst...homosexual act or adultery......

i am just saying....these acts do not hold he same degree of weight.....at least people have some good deep seeded feelings against homosexual acts....I think most of said persons, also are strongly against adultery.
Dec 06 new
Ronald, I don't see how you can say that action(presumably you mean a sexual act) is required before someone can be classified as homosexual. IF that were true then the same would be true for a heterosexual. In that case, since I am still a virgin would I be considered asexual? It's a ridiculous argument that is not supported by the definition of the words themselves. The definitions for both heterosexual and homosexual talk about "attraction" not action.
Dec 06 new
Jesus' teaching about committing it in your heart is the equivalent to imagining/fantasizing about an immoral act. We cannot control all the thoughts that "pop" into our minds, but we can choose to continue the thought and actively imagine/fantasize which although not a physical action IS an act of will. An act of will is required for a sin to be committed.

As for homosexual acts being worse than pre/extra marital sex is kind of splitting hairs as ALL are mortal sins.
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