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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

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I've been told by a woman that many of the men on CM claim to believe that pre-marital sex is okay, thus the women, not wanting to be ignored, go along.

I think it's unfortunate. It's selling out your belief in God's truth just so some guy will give you a tumble.

If you believe in the Real Presence, and Papal Infallibilty, andThe Virgin Birth and so many other Catholic things, why would you think that God is misleading His Church through the Holy Spirit leading it to pronounce that pre-marital sex is wrong?

Doesn't make sense to me. I'm looking for some serious comments on this issue, maybe leading to an enlightenment that will cause me not to reject, out of hand, a woman who denies that truth.


I know this sounds judgemental and maybe harsh, but it's not meant to be. Please....take it as constructive, and fill me in....

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May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Frank-797076 said: I've been told by a woman that many of the men on CM claim to believe that pre-marital sex is...
(Quote) Frank-797076 said:

I've been told by a woman that many of the men on CM claim to believe that pre-marital sex is okay, thus the women, not wanting to be ignored, go along.

I think it's unfortunate. It's selling out your belief in God's truth just so some guy will give you a tumble.

If you believe in the Real Presence, and Papal Infallibilty, andThe Virgin Birth and so many other Catholic things, why would you think that God is misleading His Church through the Holy Spirit leading it to pronounce that pre-marital sex is wrong?

Doesn't make sense to me. I'm looking for some serious comments on this issue, maybe leading to an enlightenment that will cause me not to reject, out of hand, a woman who denies that truth.


I know this sounds judgemental and maybe harsh, but it's not meant to be. Please....take it as constructive, and fill me in....

--hide--

What led the woman to this judgement: conversations with the men in question, second-hand reports from other women, or answers to the CM profile faith questions? And how many is "many"?

In any event, it's not just a problem with nen: many women respond "No" to the faith question on premarital sex, and I have seen more than a few forum posts from men regarding female CM members, some of them who responded "Yes" to the premarital sex faith question, who indicated a desire for sexual intimacy early in the relationship (1st/2nd/3rd date). This in no way excuses the men for doing likewise -- they need to be the leader at all times, especially when others are venturing off-track -- but it certainly isn't fair to either men or women to gloss over a significant part of the problem.

As for the answers to the faith questions in the CM profiles:

There are many people who answer "No" to the premarital sex faith question for reasons that are not intuitively obvious, such as past behavior (not wanting to mislead others about their past) and concerns that they may not be able to resist temptations in a relationship, even though they agree with the teaching. It is true that the question does not ask about either of these factors, but in various forum discussions over the 8 5/6 years I have been here many people have reported answering the question "No" for those reasons. Thus, one can't accurately assess either personal or group assent to that teaching based solely on the profile responses.

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May 11th 2013 new

Thanks, Jerry, for the insight. The part about the past is not something I'd have thought of, nor the temptation part.

I've avoided those who think it's okay, because it's also a temptation for me, and I'd need both of us working on the issue to avoid offending God and one another.


Yours was a wonderful response, and I thank you.

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May 11th 2013 new

I am always surprised too, when I see this. Many people are on this site and consider themselves Catholic in name only and mark they are 1 or 2 of the seven questions! Why not go to a secular site if you are not serious in your convictions? rolling eyes

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May 11th 2013 new

I agree with Mary. And my comment on the issue of past behaviors and temptation is this- that is not the question that is posed or that is not my understanding of the question. The question is if you accept the church teaching on pre-marital sex. I never assume that a person who answer "yes" they accept church teaching never was tempted or never fell into that particular temptation.

LOCKED
May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Pedyne-248823 said: I agree with Mary. And my comment on the issue of past behaviors and temptation is this- that is...
(Quote) Pedyne-248823 said:

I agree with Mary. And my comment on the issue of past behaviors and temptation is this- that is not the question that is posed or that is not my understanding of the question. The question is if you accept the church teaching on pre-marital sex. I never assume that a person who answer "yes" they accept church teaching never was tempted or never fell into that particular temptation.

--hide--

It doesn't matter how you, I, or anyone else interprets the question: I provided reasons that numerous people have given over the years for their own answer to the question. Do these answers make sense? No. Are they answering the question asked? No. Regardless, that is how those individuals, and quite likely many others, chose to answer it. Debating how it should be answered may cause a few people to change their answers; however, in the grans scheme of things it is not effective, as the vast majority of CM members will never see these comments.

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May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Pedyne-248823 said: I agree with Mary. And my comment on the issue of past behaviors and temptation is this- that is...
(Quote) Pedyne-248823 said:

I agree with Mary. And my comment on the issue of past behaviors and temptation is this- that is not the question that is posed or that is not my understanding of the question. The question is if you accept the church teaching on pre-marital sex. I never assume that a person who answer "yes" they accept church teaching never was tempted or never fell into that particular temptation.

--hide--

I agree completely, Pedyne. thumbsup I like it that the site asks if you agree with the church teaching. It's straight forward and I appreciate that . . . A LOT! It's already difficult enough in the secular circles to discern this. I like it that it's out in the open here. biggrin



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May 15th 2013 new

We are creatures with a now wounded nature. Of course there are going to be some who discount the more difficult parts of the faith. I suppose its good they're still in the Church, though. Right? Maybe they'll get a good spiritual kick in the pants at Church or reading something on a forum.

Frankly, I think its concerning that so many Catholic, men AND women think they know better than the Church and her 2000 year history. Anyone who would puport to know better than our Saints, Theologians, Pope and God himself are just deluding themselves to theri own spiritual determent.

Heck, I've seen people on this site use virginity as a slur; like it's something to be ashamed of, and those of us who choose to embrace it before marriage are to be shamed into silence. Its like being in the secular world! Its quite telling as to a person's character. The arrogance is astonishing.

Is that an answer? Maybe. People will justify what they want to do, they won't listen to reason or theology or even God if they decide they, in their superior intellect and theologican prowess, can ignore the whole "don't fornicate" thing.

besides, both genders are equally responsible in this. For every woman fornicating, there's at least one man involved [unless theyr'e really doing something they shouldn't be].

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May 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Frank-797076 said: If you believe in the Real Presence, and Papal Infallibilty, andThe Virgin Birth and so many othe...
(Quote) Frank-797076 said:

If you believe in the Real Presence, and Papal Infallibilty, andThe Virgin Birth and so many other Catholic things, why would you think that God is misleading His Church through the Holy Spirit leading it to pronounce that pre-marital sex is wrong?

--hide--


I think a large part has to do with how this is taught, or if it's taught at all. We hear about the Virgin during Homilies, we hear about the Holy Spirit, but when was the last time you heard a priest talk about pre-marital sex or contraceptions as part of a homily, and take the time to unpack some of the theology that goes behind it??


Yes there is a lot of great material out there, but does the average Catholic know that it's out there, or are they encouraged to learn more about the issue? I think a lot of people have the notion that this is a much of old celibate men sitting around in Rome thinking hey the no sex thing hasn't hurt me, we should make everyone due the chastity thing at least until marriage.


When I got married the couple leading our marriage prep started off with their family history, they had a 15 year old daughter and had been married for 12 years. Obviously they're not going have a lot of credibility if they were to talk about pre-marital sex (and they didn't). When the topic of pre-marital sex came up the priest said to the guys "I assume you're already sexually active, afterall 95% of Catholics are. So if the stats are to be believed you'll have better and more sex before marriage, so I suggest you enjoy it while you can." I know not all priests say stuff like that, but the lack of message or a confusing message does not help.

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May 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: Is that an answer? Maybe. People will justify what they want to do, they won't listen to reas...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:

Is that an answer? Maybe. People will justify what they want to do, they won't listen to reason or theology or even God if they decide they, in their superior intellect and theologican prowess, can ignore the whole "don't fornicate" thing.

--hide--


Another thought, and I'm sure the gentlemen that said this to me isn't the only one who thinks like this. I jokingly said to him "Keep out of trouble" and his response was a very serious "I don't need to keep out of trouble, I'm Catholic!" I did a double take and asked him what he meant. His answer was, "I can do whatever I want to, that's the beautiful thing of being Catholic. I'll just go to confession on Friday and everything is taken care of. It's a beautiful thing."

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