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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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May 20 new
Stephanie, I should also add that men, too, in addition to women and children, are also dying in that country.
May 20 new
(quote) Rebecca-654746 said: Although there are no winners in Syria. Once again if the rebels had a united front with leaders, control of their own miltants and documented goals. I'd support them because Assad is a brutal dictator. But right now the rebels are disunified with all kinds of militant and sectarian goals with conflicting interest. Some who express interest in killing Americans. I feel it would be irresponsible to support them at this time. And Assad doesn't need our military support in order to win in Syria, and no way would I give it to him.
Truthfully, Rebecca, I think you hit the nail on the head. Who knows what groups the rebels
in Syria consist of? I bet there is more than one mindset when you get down to it.

After all, overthrowing Bassar may be their immediate goal, but after that, who knows.

I am sure there are extremists within the rebels who are using the situation for their
best interests. And that is why I am not even sure why America would be arming the
rebels.

It really is too big of a mess at this time to know what is happening on the ground
in Syria, except that people are dying and that there is mass exodus to Jordan.

May 20 new
(quote) Rebecca-654746 said: But one of the biggest issues is the land was wanted just not the population that came with it. Look I get reluctant when I criticize Israel because were was the Jewish population to go when Western countries were refusing to allow many survivors to go elsewhere. And also the issue that is how Israel created any different from what we did to the Native Americans? But the fact of the matter is the Palestinians have always gotten the raw end of that stick. And it absolutely is the internal issues that are causing it. To remove some of the settlements would be a civil war in Israel. Not all of them but some if it... The situation is a cauldron and the fact is the United States by pretty much siding with Israel no matter what Israel does adds to this. Its in Israel's best interest to end the settlements etc. Because soon if they haven't already a two state solution will be impossible. And one of the problems is that it was easy to demilitarize the Sinai, but demilitarize Golan is something else. An obstacle with peace with Syria. However considering in the past Syria and Israel faced all out war-this isn't happened. And of course you have violent extremists on the Palestinian side including the ones in Gaza who attacked an Egyptian soldier... The situation is a mess and a powder cauldron.
I am not sure how you can relate the creation of Israel to America's native Americans?
Most countries were created by war and by inhabiting lands already occupied. To single
out America is not putting history in perspective.

Jews have always lived in Israel. And why is the holiest of holy Jewish temples,
where Jesus once walked, covered by an Arab Mosque? It was taken over by war,
of course.

Anti semitism is growing again in Europe. This is unfortunate. The Jews are our
forbearers with God. If ever we have a connection to a peoples, it would be the
Jews.



May 21 new
(quote) John-336509 said: So what if there are those who think Pinochet put the country on track for economic prosperity. Mussolini made the trains run on time and Hitler solved unemployment. Who cares? It doesn't alter my point.

Hitler solved unemployment by burning all of Europe (including Germany) and in the long run caused more unemployment.

Prior to the 1973 "coup", Allende was slowly destroying Chile; Chile is now a prosperous stable country. In the few months leading upto the coup, the Chilean Supreme Court had openly complained that Allende was refusing to enforce the law (as he was constitutionally obligated to do). The lower house of Chile's Congress passed a resolution describing multiple violations of the Chilean Constitution that Allende's government was involved in. It specifically requested that the military get involved and remove Allende from power. The military considered this for a couple of weeks and gave Allende the chance to respond and repent. When he did not, they removed him.

As for not handing power over to the Chilean Congress; this would be like expecting water to calmly move after breaking a dam.

(Quote) Do you think that Muslims hate us because of our part in establishing Israelin 1948? I suspect that it...
(Quote)
Do you think that Muslims hate us because of our part in establishing Israel
in 1948?
[/quote]
I suspect that it is much deeper than 1948. Since the foundation of Islam, muslims have attempted to pillage and destroy anything outside the borders of Islam. In addition there is war/death/destruction at every single boundary of the Islamic world today, except the Greek/Turkish border.

Quote:
How is our getting involved prevented Christians from being slaughtered. Last I checked our "getting involved" in Iraq led to the half of the Christians in Iraq fleeing for their lives. Where did many of those people go-they went to Syria. One of the few places in the Middle East, where Christians had freedom to worship[/quote]
Their hold in certain areas of the ME was tenuous to begin with. Also the way these middle east dictatorships worked is to use the coercive power of government to redirect the country's wealth towards those who support the government. This is not good.

[quote]
After all nobody forced Israel to occupy the West Bank and Gaza. They didn't have to keep those areas. In fact I believe David Ben Gurion told them-bad idea. Keep Jerusalem, leave the rest. And probably a lot of the issues between Israel and its neighbors would have started stabilizing. As those who lived in 1948 died down.

Muslims have attacked and pillaged civilizations at its borders since the foundation of the religion. It did not spread through conversion (as Christianity did). It spread through conquest and has launched attacks across its borders for its entire history. In addition, when Israel was given independence, several muslim countries immediately tried to conquer it. Also the Palestinians learned from the Soviets how to coerce an entire country; from a very early age ram propaganda down the throats of the children. When they become adults, they will live the propaganda.

[quote]Truthfully, Rebecca, I think you hit the nail on the head. Who knows what groups the rebels
in Syria consist of? I bet there is more than one mindset when you get down to it.
--hide--
The issue is that some rebel groups are quasi-secular, some are kurdish; some are islamic radicals. They aren't unified, which means they have not adopted the enemy of my enemy is my friend attitude (thankfully); unfortunately a large number of people are suffering.


May 21 new
Sorry, that post was not formatted well; how do you edit a post?
May 21 new
(quote) Marianne-100218 said: John:

When you say the Palistinians, are you referring to a different set of Arabs
than the Arabs living in and around Israel?
No, that's who I'm referring to.
May 21 new
(quote) Alex-789274 said: Sorry, that post was not formatted well; how do you edit a post?
Sadly, once you hit the "submit post" button, it's gone and there's nothing you can do about it. On the plus side, this prevents fights over people going back and materially changing what they said in the middle of a debate instead of just tweaking the formatting.
May 21 new
(Quote) But one of the biggest issues is the land was wanted just not the population that came with it. True enough.(Quote) ...
(Quote) But one of the biggest issues is the land was wanted just not the population that came with it. [/quote]

True enough.

Quote:
.. And also the issue that is how Israel created any different from what we did to the Native Americans? [/quote]

I see where you are coming from, but there are differences.

As Marianne points out, there have been Jews living there for pretty much all of recorded history, so it's not quite the same scenario as when Europeans came across the ocean and displaced the native populations. The Jews are just as native there as anyone else.

You don't really have the same issues about destroying native cultures that you had in American history. The creation of Israel also wasn't a case of a colonist/expansionist nation taking territory for itself, it was a case of the community of nations trying to provide a home for a historically abused population.

Quote:

...And it absolutely is the internal issues that are causing it. [/quote]
Your refusal to acknowledge outside forces is just bizarre. We can debate whether the split is 50-50 or 60-40 or 90-10 or whatever, but the statement that "it absolutely is the internal issues that are causing it" means that you are literally ignoring decades of evidence of outside players.

Quote:

To remove some of the settlements would be a civil war in Israel.



Pure speculation on your part. Maybe you're right, maybe you aren't. It wouldn't surprise me if you were correct here. But it really has no bearing on the topic at hand.

[quote]...The situation is a cauldron and the fact is the United States by pretty much siding with Israel no matter what Israel does adds to this.


True.
[quote]
Its in Israel's best interest to end the settlements etc. Because soon if they haven't already a two state solution will be impossible.


Obviously there are those who would argue that scuttling the two state solution is what is in Israel's best interest.

[quote]
.... However considering in the past Syria and Israel faced all out war-this isn't happened.
--hide--


???? It most certainly has happened. More than once.

May 21 new
(quote) John-336509 said:

???? It most certainly has happened. More than once.

Okay, so since we are still in the midst of the website being renovated, things didn't work out the way I thought.

At the moment if you click on the gray area in my previous post, it will expand and you will see a more complete version of my response, though the formatting did not at all work out the way I had planned.

May 21 new
(quote) Alex-789274 said: Hitler solved unemployment by burning all of Europe (including Germany) and in the long run caused more unemployment.

Prior to the 1973 "coup", Allende was slowly destroying Chile; Chile is now a prosperous stable country. In the few months leading upto the coup, the Chilean Supreme Court had openly complained that Allende was refusing to enforce the law (as he was constitutionally obligated to do). The lower house of Chile's Congress passed a resolution describing multiple violations of the Chilean Constitution that Allende's government was involved in. It specifically requested that the military get involved and remove Allende from power. The military considered this for a couple of weeks and gave Allende the chance to respond and repent. When he did not, they removed him.

As for not handing power over to the Chilean Congress; this would be like expecting water to calmly move after breaking a dam.

The issue is that some rebel groups are quasi-secular, some are kurdish; some are islamic radicals. They aren't unified, which means they have not adopted the enemy of my enemy is my friend attitude (thankfully); unfortunately a large number of people are suffering.


However did you manage to get different sections of gray quote?

We used to be able to do that, but then it went away. You appear to have stumbled upon the secret, but it doesn't work exactly the way it used to. (I failed when I tried)
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