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Saint Peter's Square was created so that more people could be in the presence of the Pope and was named after Saint Peter, one of Jesus's apostles.
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Prayer for Nelson Mandela?

Jun 10th 2013 new
Dear catholicmatch members,

I very recently (yesterday) joined this website in the hopes of meeting someone who shares my beliefs and my faith. I began exploring this website and found the request for prayers forum. I was horribly shocked to find that there are members on here who publicly endorse terrorists and communists

Even though we were instructed to pray for our enemies and those that harm us, offering up public prayers for communist (socialist) leaders is highly inappropriate because of the message it carries. Even though the fight against a racist regime like Appertheid is just, the end does not justify the means. Killing innocent (and even guilty) people is NEVER the answer and we as Catholics cannot support this regime.

Communist regimes are anti-religious. They are againt our Christian faith. We have seen examples of this all over the world. Replacing a disgusting racist regime with a communist/social regime is just replacing one type of evil (which can be easily be seen). With another (which is more cunning but none the less just as bad).

I really hope that the catholic community will not support this type of political agenda.

I do hope that

Jun 10th 2013 new
Hi Rafal,

Welcome to the forums! You don't have to agree with the political views of others in order to participate in a Catholic community like CM.

Nelson Mandela was apparently baptized as a Methodist and married to a Jehovah's Witness. I have never heard of anyone indicating he was atheist or supported Karl Marx's assertions re: religion. While South African politics are complex, and there are strands of socialism in the philosophy of the ANC (as oppressed people flock to the philosophy that speaks to their oppression), South Africa is a democracy (perhaps a troubled one, but a democracy nonetheless). It is not allied with North Korea or Cuba. Mr. Mandela has been awarded a Nobel Peace Prize and the US Presidential Medal of Freedom, among other awards. For example, I doubt that Osama bin Laden would be placed in the same category, just for starters.

I suspect that those who admire him and are seeking prayers for him, admire him as figure who fought for racial equality. There are lots of political figures in all kinds of western countries who have illustrious careers fighting for the poor, standing up for freedom and fiscal responsibility, yet sleep around on their wives with dozens of mistresses like they live in a soap opera. Some people like those leaders anyway.

Perhaps the joke threads or word game threads might be less distressing for you - there's plenty of those. I shall leave it at that. Have a pleasant evening.

Jun 11th 2013 new
Hi Angela,

Thank you for the kind reply.

I will try to stay out of "politics". But, I think it is unfair to make such bold statements about controversial figures in the prayer forum. You said that Mr. Mandela received the Nobel peace prize. So did Mr. Barrack Hussein Obama. I think that is enough said. I don't think I have ever been this disappointed by someone's online comment...

I will try not to get to involved in these forums and will instead look to meet new people...

OP had "moderate" in his political views.... what would someone with "liberal" views think...
Jun 17th 2013 new
A prayer is a conversation with God. What are you telling God? That Mr Mandela should be given some physical relief from his illness simply because he is a human being in pain, or that he deserves physical relief from his illness because he is a great guy who deserves it? The OP has a point. No one is good except God alone, said Jesus. Telling God that X is good because you think so could be telling God something with which he doesn't agree. How confident are you that God agrees that you are speaking the truth when you utter your words of prayer?

The OP's point may be that one can pray for what one wishes in charity as long as the prayer isn't unnecessarily embellished. Truth is owned by God. An inaccurate embellishment is an invasion of his property rights over the truth. It's saying that something is when it isn't. While it's OK to ask God to provide an old and sick man with a little bit of pain relief as a matter of charity and to leave it at that, it may be overreaching and vain to seek to justify with other reasons as to why God should provide the pain relief.

Nevertheless, bearing in mind Pope Francis' recent admonition against calumny, is Mr Mandela an ogre? According to what we are told by news and commentary on the public record, it seems he developed a quiet peace during his long spell in prison, cooperated sincerely with President de Klerk to effect a peaceful transition to majority government, stood for and won election as president to bed down the crucial birth years of the new republic and, unlike others who developed a taste for power, refused to succeed himself in office when he could easily have become a wannabe president-for-life like Robert Mugabe.

When you turn up at the Pearly Gates, who would you want God to regard as the real you, the reformed person you became a few bits of time before you died or the uninhibited hellraiser you used to be for thirty years before your repentance and conversion? Like the labourers who were reckoned by the owner of the vineyard to be due a full day's wages because they chose to keep up their hope for employment patiently for the whole day and to accept the owner's invitation for last minute employment without knowing what they would be paid, perhaps the last five minutes, so to speak, of Mr Mandela's life is the one we should choose without violating the truth to remember him by, rather than by his early years as an active terrorist and, dare we say even, the guy who ditched his plain first wife for a sexier second one.

But while, in charity and to avoid any risk of calumny, we might choose to remember Mr Mandela in his later form, it would be presumptuous to tell God that that is how God should think of him. God has responsibilities in justice to all manner of people who may have been affected what what Mr Mandela said and did throughout the whole of his life, his spurned first wife, perhaps, and those who died in various terrorist activities, and so we should let God think of him as God wants to think of him and phrase our prayers modestly to ask what we need to ask and just that.
Jun 17th 2013 new
Nice post Roystan but I don't know if you understood my point. I am merely saying that if for example Stalin/Hitler was alive today and sick we could pray for them but we should not be glorifying them and saying that they were great people. Obviously this is not the best comparison but what I am saying is that we should not be making political statements (especially praising communists/socialists) on these forums. Also, one good action by someone (fighting racist regime) does not mean that the person was good and should be praised. Hitler for example was against smoking, does this mean we should praise him in general for this?
Jun 24th 2013 new
(quote) Rafal-979062 said: Hi Angela,

Thank you for the kind reply.

I will try to stay out of "politics". But, I think it is unfair to make such bold statements about controversial figures in the prayer forum. You said that Mr. Mandela received the Nobel peace prize. So did Mr. Barrack Hussein Obama. I think that is enough said. I don't think I have ever been this disappointed by someone's online comment...

I will try not to get to involved in these forums and will instead look to meet new people...

OP had "moderate" in his political views.... what would someone with "liberal" views think...
Hi Rafal, I have yet to run across anyone here in the CM forums who publicly endorses terrorists and communists. Can you give an example? Former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Palestinian leader Yassir Arafat, both acknowledged former terrorists, redeemed themselves and also won the Nobel Peace prize. Admittedly, the prize has not always gone to the deserving as you rightly pointed out with Obama, but Nelson Mandela was not the same person leaving prison as he was entering. St. Paul was not a nice guy before he had a spiritual epiphany and followed Christ.

Please reread both Angela's and Roystan's posts~ I believe they understand your point more than you may realize.

Peace and good fortune to you, and do pray for Nelson Mandela.
Jun 25th 2013 new
Peter: I am not sure if anyone is following what I am saying.. This is the point: Someone praised Nelson Mandela. Nelson Mandela is very pro-abortion. In 1996 He signed off on an abortion bill that will led to uncountable deaths. This is just one of several reasons why he should be criticized, not praised. How can someone be allowed to praise him on a Catholic forum like this? Also, you said that no one publicly endorses communists. I think that saying Mandela was a great man is just that, endorsing communists. While I am not very involved with South African politics, someone being supported by a communist party/labour party is obviously doing something that they like and so he may not "call" himself a communist but that does not mean that he is not one. In the end, a prayer forum should be used for prayer, not making political statements.
Jun 25th 2013 new
And you assume that every person on here is aware that Nelson Mandela has done any of these things? Not only that, but I hardly think it appropriate to criticize the motives behind why a person prays for a communist, especially if they do not know he is a communist. You do not know their heart. For all you know, they could be praying for whom they perceive to be a person who tries to overcome racial inequality without being aware of the other atrocities he has committed. Once they know that he is a communist, there is still nothing wrong with praying for mercy for enemies of the church and their conversion. If they support his beliefs, or pray for him to gain power, or that sort of thing, being fully aware of the dangers of communism, then that is a different story. The problem is, most people are unaware of these things today. Most people are unaware that it is not appropriate to vote for a pro choice candidate despite his political policy. Most people think it is ok to reject any of the Church teachings they feel like, including not going to Mass EVERY Sunday, believing contraception to be ok, or any other teaching of the Church. So the question is: do they do these things out of ignorance, or with full knowledge and understanding? YOU cannot decide that. You can correct and inform them. I for one never knew of Mandelas communist policies or abortion position, in fact, I was indifferent and didnt pay much attention to him. To me, I think the Church has much bigger fish to fry right now.
Jun 25th 2013 new
Rafal, Saint Peter's Square is not CM's prayer forum. This is a dating site, and if you want to attract women here, I'd suggest you lighten up a bit. You're too young to be a curmudgeon- that's my job!
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