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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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I bring this topic up today because there is a lot of condemnation of
Pope Pius XII, the man who was Pope during WW2. Many feel he did
not do enough to help the Jews or the war effort for countless reasons.

I recently saw this old movie called "The Scarlet and the Black." It was
a true story about a priest in the Vatican, who worked to save over 7000
refugees in Italy who came to the Vatican for help. The Pope did not
interfere with this special rescue mission even though the Vatican had a
precarious neutral status recognized by the Nazi's.

Monsignor O'Flaherty, a priest from Ireland, along with countless priests
and Italians living in Rome and outside of Rome, proceeded with great risk
to their own lives in aiding many refugees that sought help. Monsignor
O'Flaherty spearheaded the underground movement.

He had diplomatic immunity because of his offical job at the Vatican. This
allowed him to approach many of the Consultates set up in Rome to seek
help. It also delayed his capture by the Nazi's because if the Nazi's did not
recognize the Vatican's special privileges, they would risk loosing any
favor they had with countries that supported the Nazi's.

"The movie title The Scarlet and the Black is a reference not only to the black cassock and scarlet sash worn by Monsignores and bishops in the Catholic Church, but also to the dominant colors of Nazi Party regalia."

I rented the movie from Amazon if anyone is interested. But don't let anyone
tell you as a Catholic, that the Catholic Church or the Pope did nothing to
help out during WWII.



en.wikipedia.org
Jul 9th 2013 new
It's a bad urban myth that the Church did nothing to help the Jews during WWII - people tend to forget that the Nazis martyred a good number of Catholics during that war as well, I think. We have a number of saints from that era like Maximillian Kolbe and Edith Stein, to name a few. John Paul II was in a concentration camp for a short while as well, if I remember correction.

Catholic Answers did a few articles on the subject, if I remember correctly. There are a few here.
www.catholic.com
Radio show you can listen to - www.catholic.com (link to listen is on top)

Jul 9th 2013 new
(quote) Pamela-880383 said: It's a bad urban myth that the Church did nothing to help the Jews during WWII - people tend to forget that the Nazis martyred a good number of Catholics during that war as well, I think. We have a number of saints from that era like Maximillian Kolbe and Edith Stein, to name a few. John Paul II was in a concentration camp for a short while as well, if I remember correction.

Catholic Answers did a few articles on the subject, if I remember correctly. There are a few here.
http://www.catholic.com/documents/how-pius-xii-protected-jews
Radio show you can listen to - http://www.catholic.com/radio/shows/catholic-urban-legends-hitlers-pope-3851 (link to listen is on top)

I don't remember hearing that John Paul was in a concentration camp, but I
know the other two saints did a lot for the war effort.

There are probably many unsung heroes during that time.

Thank you for your references, Pamela.
Jul 9th 2013 new
(quote) Pamela-880383 said: It's a bad urban myth that the Church did nothing to help the Jews during WWII - people tend to forget that the Nazis martyred a good number of Catholics during that war as well, I think. We have a number of saints from that era like Maximillian Kolbe and Edith Stein, to name a few. John Paul II was in a concentration camp for a short while as well, if I remember correction.

Catholic Answers did a few articles on the subject, if I remember correctly. There are a few here.
http://www.catholic.com/documents/how-pius-xii-protected-jews
Radio show you can listen to - http://www.catholic.com/radio/shows/catholic-urban-legends-hitlers-pope-3851 (link to listen is on top)

Your first reference about how Pope Pius XII helped is particularly
good.
Jul 9th 2013 new
I think the lies that Pope Pius XII was indifferent to the plight of Jews can finally be laid to rest:

dominusjesuschristus.blogspot.com

www.amazon.com.=
Jul 9th 2013 new
Good question. I think maybe because of the nature of how things were most of what they did do had to be kept secret so they could keep on doing it and later didn't get wide publicity. I know several convents and catholic schoold hid Jewish children and prettended they were catholic and I'm sure other things when on to help them out.
Jul 9th 2013 new
There were many in the Church who helped the jews during the Holocaust one who put in the most effort was Pope John 23 .


As nuncio, Roncalli made various efforts during the Holocaust in World War II to save refugees, mostly Jewish people, from the Nazis. Among his efforts were: Jewish refugees who arrived in Istanbul and were assisted in going on to Palestine or other destinations[citation needed] Slovakian children managed to leave the country due to his interventions.[8] Jewish refugees whose names were included on a list submitted by Rabbi Markus of Istanbul to Nuncio Roncalli. Jews held at Jasenovac concentration camp, near Stara Gradika, were liberated as a result of his intervention.[citation needed] Bulgarian Jews who left Bulgaria, a result of his request to King Boris of Bulgaria.[9] Romanian Jews from Transnistria left Romania as a result of his intervention.[citation needed] Italian Jews helped by the Vatican as a result of his interventions.[citation needed] Orphaned children of Transnistria on board a refugee ship that weighed anchor from Constanța to Istanbul, and later arriving in Palestine as a result of his interventions.[citation needed] Jews held at the Sered concentration camp who were spared from being deported to German death camps as a result of his intervention.[citation needed] Hungarian Jews who saved themselves through their conversions to Christianity through the baptismal certificates sent by Nuncio Roncalli to the Hungarian Nuncio, Monsignor Angelo Rota.


Jul 9th 2013 new
(quote) Michael-556947 said: There were many in the Church who helped the jews during the Holocaust one who put in the most effort was Pope John 23 .


As nuncio, Roncalli made various efforts during the Holocaust in World War II to save refugees, mostly Jewish people, from the Nazis. Among his efforts were: Jewish refugees who arrived in Istanbul and were assisted in going on to Palestine or other destinations[citation needed] Slovakian children managed to leave the country due to his interventions.[8] Jewish refugees whose names were included on a list submitted by Rabbi Markus of Istanbul to Nuncio Roncalli. Jews held at Jasenovac concentration camp, near Stara Gradika, were liberated as a result of his intervention.[citation needed] Bulgarian Jews who left Bulgaria, a result of his request to King Boris of Bulgaria.[9] Romanian Jews from Transnistria left Romania as a result of his intervention.[citation needed] Italian Jews helped by the Vatican as a result of his interventions.[citation needed] Orphaned children of Transnistria on board a refugee ship that weighed anchor from Constanța to Istanbul, and later arriving in Palestine as a result of his interventions.[citation needed] Jews held at the Sered concentration camp who were spared from being deported to German death camps as a result of his intervention.[citation needed] Hungarian Jews who saved themselves through their conversions to Christianity through the baptismal certificates sent by Nuncio Roncalli to the Hungarian Nuncio, Monsignor Angelo Rota.


That was an impressive list, Michael, and I bet there are hundreds more not
mentioned, that he helped.

Anyone helping the Jews were subject to execution immediately. It must have
been extremely scary during those times.
Jul 9th 2013 new
(quote) Peter-449116 said: I think the lies that Pope Pius XII was indifferent to the plight of Jews can finally be laid to rest:

http://dominusjesuschristus.blogspot.com/2010/01/kgb-and-plot-to-taint-pope-pius-xii-by.html

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001PB5Q84?tag=zenit0a-20&camp=211493&creative=379969&linkCode=op1&creative...=
I would have to say that it seems like the Vatican did not do a lot to help
out Jews during WW2 because they pretty much got through the war
intact.

After all, The Vatican was neutral, but if they did overtly try to
help Jews, then they would have lost their neutrality and many more
people, including those inside Vatican City could have been
murdered. It was tricky road to navigate.

I think it was more than just that play that made it look like the Pope
and the Vatican did not try to help the Jews. That play came out
many years later. I don't think any one would saw it would have
made that much of a difference to change opinions.

I am starting to think that it is history rewritten when that play gets
mentioned.
Jul 11th 2013 new
As an indication of how much the Jews of WWII era were gratefulk for all that Pius did do, the State of Israel dedicated a grove of tress to his memory. Golda Meir and many Israeli leaders paid tribute to all that Pius and the Church did.

KGB documents that were released after the fall of Communism prove that the discrediting of Pius XII started with them. The came the libelous book that was published by some Jewish author gave legs to the KGB lies so that today Israeli leaders themselves don't know why the Pius XII grove of trees exists.
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