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Saint Anthony is the patron of lost things and missing persons.
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Jul 28th 2013 new
(quote) Jack-752986 said: Death ends a valid marriage. The civil status of that marriage before the death occurred (e.g., newly-wed, divorced, legally separated, living apart) does not matter.

If someone has been married more than once, there could be some confusion in a person's mind. For example, consider a man with a first marriage that ended in divorce (but no annulment), followed by a "second" marriage that ended with the death of the new wife. Civilly, the man is considered a widow, but the Church presumes that the first marriage is still valid, i.e., the man is still married. The man may have a hundred reasons in his mind why the first marriage was not valid. All 100 reasons may be true. But until the paperwork is submitted to allow the Church to make a determination, the Church has to consider the first marriage as still valid.

I would make allowances for another human to be confused. There can be a lot of facts, emotions, legalities and malformed opinion in play. And there are many wounded hearts out there.

But if the individual is not willing to correct his profile and do some research, then alerting CM to the issue (and your concerns) is appropriate. There's no need to be confrontational (not that anyone has been). CM staff have undoubtedly handled these issues before.


___________________ - On a good day
Jack, Thanks for the excellent clarification of status.
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Jul 28th 2013 new
(quote) Heather-86875 said: I have actually come across someone, not sure exactly where it was, that was married and divorced and then the spouse passed away. If a person was not annuled and therefore still married in the eyes of the church then I would assume that person would then be free to marry in the church once their spouse passes on...till death do we part (just like it would be for anyone else who remains married in the eyes of both the law and the church who has a spouse who passes on). Now I am not saying that this person is not being deceitful because I don't know this person. And certainly if there are multiple people putting this it is less likely the case that there are that many people on the site divorced, not annuled, with a spouse who passed away. BUT, it can happen and if it truthfully has happened to someone, once their ex spouse passes away, regardless of whether they take the title of widow or not, to call them divorced without annulment would be most accurate in a secular sense but then when they say they are free to marry in the church it looks deceitful as well. Just trying to provide food for thought. Again, I don't know any of these guys situations but unless you know for sure the ex spouse is still living, the information could be a misrepresentation but it may not be.
Heather, so true! I agree.
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Jul 28th 2013 new
(quote) Christine-987105 said: Well good gravy! I guess that states their character right off the bat!
laughing
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Jul 28th 2013 new
(quote) Sandra-871852 said: Some profiles state they are widowed, yet have been previously married and divorced without annulment.

Shouldn't they correctly state divorced rather than widowed in their profile since they are not free to marry?
I believe their status should be divorced. If their ex-spouse has since passed away, then the status can be Free to Marry. Otherwise they are not Free to Marry.

This is actually my issue with this site. I am divorced but my ex-spouse died after our divorce so I am free to marry. However many people doing searches for someone free to marry only put Annulled, Never Married or Widowed in their search criteria. I believe Free to Marry should be a search criteria.
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Jul 28th 2013 new
(quote) Adam-399324 said: Their 'ex'-spouse is dead, right? (if not, the use of 'widowed' is clearly pathological)

If so, then, indeed, they are free to marry and widowed in the eyes of the Church (their spouse, from whom they were not annulled is now dead; they're a widow/er). The marriage bond is dissolved at death, no matter the state of marital conviviality (or lack thereof) at the time of death.
Adam,

They are not free to marry if they had a previous marriage that did not end in death, and do not have an annulment for that one.

Therefore,

Their status should be: Widow/Widowed and Not Free to Marry
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Jul 28th 2013 new
(quote) Kathy-514910 said: I believe their status should be divorced. If their ex-spouse has since passed away, then the status can be Free to Marry. Otherwise they are not Free to Marry.

This is actually my issue with this site. I am divorced but my ex-spouse died after our divorce so I am free to marry. However many people doing searches for someone free to marry only put Annulled, Never Married or Widowed in their search criteria. I believe Free to Marry should be a search criteria.

You make a valid point, Kathy, about those who are divorced but free to marry due to their ex-spouse being deceased, and having a way for those individuals to be identifiable through the search criteria (and allow them the opportunity to participate in matching, which I'm not sure if they are). I would say it is far more common than not for those doing searches to exclude "divorced" from their search criteria. I sent in a help ticket once on this very issue, and received back a rather vague and inconclusive answer from a young staff member.

At one point I thought CM was considering having a special search category for "divorced, former spouse deceased", the way there is for never married, annulled, etc, but this apparently has never gained traction. The other thing I'd like to see is a few extra words added to the phrase "free to marry" in the profile, and that is to say "free to marry in the Church", to clarify this a bit beyond one's personal openness to marriage, or civil freedom to marry.

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Jul 28th 2013 new
(quote) Christine-987105 said: Well good gravy! I guess that states their character right off the bat!
It depends. The OP did not state whether the person's spouse is still alive or deceased. If the latter, the CM status seems correct to me.

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Jul 28th 2013 new
(quote) Sandra-871852 said: What bothers me is that I have been matched with a widower who didn't have an annulment from his first marriage with the wife is still living. This person's status under their profile should be divorced.
If you haven't done so already, please use a Help ticket to report this situation to the CM admins.

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Jul 28th 2013 new
(quote) Helen-450889 said: They are not free to marry if they had a previous marriage that did not end in death, and do not have an annulment for that one.

Therefore,

Their status should be: Widow/Widowed and Not Free to Marry
If the previous marriage did not end in death, how are they widowed?

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Jul 28th 2013 new
(quote) Sandra-871852 said: Cathy, great response.
I agree that it would give clarity and simplify things if CM did just have Free to Marry or Not under each profile photo. Then in the profile one could give more information.

Those not free to marry aren't able to be matched. But some widowed have had previous marriages ending in divorce without annulment with the previous spouse still living.

What bothers me is that I have been matched with a widower who didn't have an annulment from his first marriage with the wife is still living. This person's status under their profile should be divorced. Then within their profile they could explain they are widowed also. They are definitely not free to marry.

This is not a judgement on anyone with whatever status, but rather that some on CM are looking for a future marriage, check off the available free to marry statuses in searches/matches and don't want to be matched with those that aren't free to marry in the Catholic Church.

So when we check widowed/widower we assume they are free to marry. Maybe CM could clarify this.

I like your idea of keeping it simple and clear and having one clear status of either Free to Marry/Not Free to Marry.
It would also be helpful for Cm to have the Question of : Number of marriages,
Then the reader would know to question further into it! To many people ASSUME there was "only one marriage" when their are Many here on CM (and everywhere) who have had MULTIPE marriages-----I am Not one of them!
But I do appreciate to know the status of Each marriage, so there is no confusion / or legal problems.
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