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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Married Priests

Jul 30 new
For those who may not be aware, there currently are married Roman Catholic priests in the U.S. and have been since 1980 under Pope John Paul's Pastoral Provision.

When Anglican churches began to disagree with the direction that church was going, JPII "said that Protestant clergymen who became Catholic priests could stay married to their wives."

"...Concerning married Episcopalian clergy becoming Catholic priests, 'the Holy See has specified that this exception to the rule of celibacy is granted in favor of these individual persons'... If the married former Episcopalian minister were ordained as a Catholic deacon and then priest, he would be exempt by a special favor from the Holy Father of making the promise of celibacy; however, if he later became a widower, then he would be bound to a celibate lifestyle and could not remarry."


www.uscatholic.org

www.nytimes.com

www.freerepublic.com (Cute picture!)

www.catholicdoors.com

www.ewtn.com


And of course, before the First Latern Council of 1123 (Canon 3) forbid priests to marry, there were, in fact, Roman Catholic priests leading congregations who had wives and children.

www.catholicdoors.com

Timothy Dolan, Archbishop of Milwaukee, said on July 26, 2008, "Pope Paul VI states that celibacy 'is not, of course, required by the nature of the priesthood itself. This is clear from the practice of the early church and the traditions of the Eastern rite churches.'"


I belong to a small church with one priest serving as pastor and retired priests visit to preside over masses, confessions, etc. We have lost two priests/pastors who left to get married. With the shortage of men entering seminaries all over the world, the priesthood would be more inviting if Catholic married men were permitted to be ordained.



















Jul 30 new
Marriage is a vocation and Holy Orders is a vocation. There is a conflict of interest. I have a Lutheran friend who is a pastor and I see how the obligations with family,finances, marriage, children puts him in compromising pastoral positions. His vocation of marriage saps his time and efforts for his flock and parish and vice versa. Both vocations take lots of time, love, energy and faith.

Jul 30 new
Greetings

While I have always been an advocate for the Natural Law of God: that being Man should not be alone therefore God made Woman from the rib of Adam, therefore Gods desire for that sacred union should not be thwarted. Yes Priests should be married. Celebacy should be voluntary not demanded

Another solution to the Priest shortage is to Ordain Women. Another position I think should be available for Women.

I know several Women Priests and they have families while performing their duties in their respective Churches.

Consider that in the time of Jesus the culture was to keep women in the background. Servents if you will. It was in about the 14th century guided by St Richard that the Church changed the marrage regulation for the basic reason that the assets of the Priest would go to the Church rather than to the widow and family. Again the woman became a second class citizen of the Church

What say you?
Jul 30 new
(quote) Philip-600116 said: Greetings

While I have always been an advocate for the Natural Law of God: that being Man should not be alone therefore God made Woman from the rib of Adam, therefore Gods desire for that sacred union should not be thwarted. Yes Priests should be married. Celebacy should be voluntary not demanded

Another solution to the Priest shortage is to Ordain Women. Another position I think should be available for Women.

I know several Women Priests and they have families while performing their duties in their respective Churches.

Consider that in the time of Jesus the culture was to keep women in the background. Servents if you will. It was in about the 14th century guided by St Richard that the Church changed the marrage regulation for the basic reason that the assets of the Priest would go to the Church rather than to the widow and family. Again the woman became a second class citizen of the Church

What say you?
There's no such thing as "women priests" in the institution of Jesus Christ which is the Church and His Mystical Body. The Church is defined, in a way that cannot be reformed, revoked or errant, as having no authority to ordain women to the sacerdotal priesthood (in the encyclical Ordinatio Sacerdotalis). So, women's ordination is not a solution, it's not even an option. It's not like we can hold a gun to God's head to get him to give these women the indelible character and graces of the priesthood. They're plainly faking it all...and on top of that, one would have good reason to believe that these women are excommunicated by their attempt to receive Holy Orders.

The more perfect life is that of consecrated virginity, like the Holy Father has taught in his encyclical Sacra Virginitas. My thought on the matter is that if priests are feeling unfulfilled in their consecrated life, it is because of sin and separation from God, not the fact that they do not have wives.

Clerical marriage and concubinage cropped up as a general abuse in Western Europe in the 8th, 9th and 10th centuries and was highly correlated to the buying of offices (simony) and absenteeism at the time. These men had no real interest in serving the laity, but rather enriching themselves. The worry was not a general one over the material possessions of the Church passing to the biological children (heirs) of priests or bishops, but rather one of moral decay in the priesthood.

This doesn't make women second class in the Church, it merely shows the proper role of women in the Church. Your words are an offense when held up to the lives of Our Blessed Mother, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Catherine of Sienna, St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Bernadette Soubirous, etc., who held to perpetual virginity as a higher prize than matrimony. That doesn't mean that married women are lesser somehow in dignity or second class, but it doesn't make them candidates for the sacerdotal priesthood, either. The proper role of the married woman is subject to her husband, not as the one who offers the Holy Sacrifice in atonement for sins at the Mass.

Jul 30 new
(quote) Philip-600116 said:

Another solution to the Priest shortage is to Ordain Women. Another position I think should be available for Women.

I know several Women Priests and they have families while performing their duties in their respective Churches.

Consider that in the time of Jesus the culture was to keep women in the background. Servents if you will. It was in about the 14th century guided by St Richard that the Church changed the marrage regulation for the basic reason that the assets of the Priest would go to the Church rather than to the widow and family. Again the woman became a second class citizen of the Church

What say you?
Personally, I think the Institutional Church will fight tooth and nail against a feminine face in the priesthood. As an institution, it is self-preservationist and clearly women could and would be successful in the role as pastoral leaders. Time and again, Sisters have been in such a role. At a Communion Service when a priest is not available, marvelous "reflections" are preached and nourish the hungry hearts and souls of the faithful.
I personally struggled with the call to Holy Orders. Was I to leave my beloved faith to fulfill my vocation? How is a woman to deny that which is deep in her heart? I have discerned that as much as I believe in a woman's vocation to the priesthood, in this time and place, I must be a voice in the shadows rather than falsely convert to the Lutheran or Episcopal faith. I am Roman Catholic! And just like many Saints before me, I must live faithfully challenging the Church to grow and develop as God intends!
Jul 30 new
Sadly, most of the married priests who converted to Catholicism, did so in protest of their Faith's acceptance of women as priests.
Jul 30 new
Once again my pet peeve with the Holy Roman Catholic Church rears its ugly head. The Holy Roman Catholic Church already has married clergy and has since the beginning of its existence. The Latin Rite....a.k.a. Western Church ruled it 'out' 1000+ years ago. In my cynical opinion the basis was an attempt by Rome to maintain control of the money and influence it had over its followers. Many European wealthy ruling families were trying to gain control of the Vatican, a very major influence on people's lives of the Dark and Middle Ages, by "selling" their sons to Rome as priests and then expecting to be able to control the Church. That, however, is perhaps the seed for another discussion.
Back to this topic.
The Eastern Rites and the Western one are all part of the same church or organization or unit...the Holy Roman Catholic Church with its head 'boss', the Pope, housed in Rome. It is akin to states of our United States, all part of the same country but having rules, procedures and regulations that are slightly different from each other but again....part of the same USA under one president and Congress who reside in DC.
The men who enter the clergy of the Eastern Rites can marry before they are ordained. This is true whether they live abroad or in the U.S. Once ordination occurs they will not be allowed to rise to the rank of bishop. Big deal...they will still be men who do God's work in the capacity of priests. And is 'making bishop' the primary reason for a man to enter the priesthood?? I certainly hope not. Exceptions have been and are made infrequently but regularly in all Rites regarding ordaining already married men to the clergy. It has not typically been broadcast but it is not new. My cynical self again believes that this may be because it has been easier and required less explanation for Rome than for them to simply say, "the Catholic Church does not have married clergy", and letting it rest there! The Catholic Church does have married clergy and it always has.
Jul 30 new
(quote) Christine-960631 said: Sadly, most of the married priests who converted to Catholicism, did so in protest of their Faith's acceptance of women as priests.
I don't understand the problem?We have married Priests in the Eastern RItes of the Catholic Church.Women Priests on the other hand will never happen.
Jul 30 new
(quote) Christine-960631 said: Personally, I think the Institutional Church will fight tooth and nail against a feminine face in the priesthood. As an institution, it is self-preservationist and clearly women could and would be successful in the role as pastoral leaders. Time and again, Sisters have been in such a role. At a Communion Service when a priest is not available, marvelous "reflections" are preached and nourish the hungry hearts and souls of the faithful.
I personally struggled with the call to Holy Orders. Was I to leave my beloved faith to fulfill my vocation? How is a woman to deny that which is deep in her heart? I have discerned that as much as I believe in a woman's vocation to the priesthood, in this time and place, I must be a voice in the shadows rather than falsely convert to the Lutheran or Episcopal faith. I am Roman Catholic! And just like many Saints before me, I must live faithfully challenging the Church to grow and develop as God intends!
Challenge the Church to grow and develop as God intends?Holy Orders will never develop or change in regard to ordaining women.Acceptance and obedience is a must in this area.Even within your heart.
Jul 30 new
Perhaps we should make a really simple clarification.

There is a very clear history of the ordination of married men - including Peter - in the Church's history, both in the East and in the West. But neither the Eastern nor the Western Church makes it a tradition to marry ordained men. Even in the Eastern Churches where married men often become priests once a man has received Holy Orders he does not afterwards undergo the sacrament of matrimony. The same goes for deacons in the Western Church or a man who converts and is later ordained. If his spouse dies he does not remarry. And in the East these men never become bishops because of the time commitment involved in being both biological and spiritual fathers.

But because Christ ordained only men - to the exclusion even of the holiest human being on the planet - His Mother - the Church has solemnly declared that she has no authority to ordain women. We need to remember that priesthood is a position of service, not power, and that we are all called to be servants to each other in various ways. Very few people are called to be priests but we are all called to service.
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