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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

Obama Goes Against the Grain of What America Represents . Right now in certain countries the governments already regulate religions including the Catholic Church . predominately in socialist countries . there have constantly been these issues arising with the Obama Administration especially with the New Heath care law . this present government will step back for a while . but then start up again including the US military ( as far Christianity ). much of this has been kept quiet by the media .

It was Benjamin Franklin who Credits God for Americas Independence and the Constitution .

The Constitutional Convention had been meeting for five weeks, and had hit a perilous deadlock. The large states were insisting that congressional representation be based on population; the smaller states wanted a one-state-one-vote rule. The entire effort to create a stronger union was in jeopardy. Eighty-one-year-old Benjamin Franklin, quiet during most of the deliberations, then addressed the group. According to James Madison's notes, here is what happened next. Mr. President The small progress we have made after 4 or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other-our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ays, is methinks a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the Human Understanding. We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of Government, and examined the different forms of those Republics which having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution now no longer exist. And we have viewed Modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances. In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the Contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection.- Our prayers, Sir, were heard, & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending providence in our favor. I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that "except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest. I therefore beg leave to move-that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that Service-
Aug 13 new
(quote) Michael-556947 said: Obama Goes Against the Grain of What America Represents . Right now in certain countries the governments already regulate religions including the Catholic Church . predominately in socialist countries . there have constantly been these issues arising with the Obama Administration especially with the New Heath care law . this present government will step back for a while . but then start up again including the US military ( as far Christianity ). much of this has been kept quiet by the media .

It was Benjamin Franklin who Credits God for Americas Independence and the Constitution .

The Constitutional Convention had been meeting for five weeks, and had hit a perilous deadlock. The large states were insisting that congressional representation be based on population; the smaller states wanted a one-state-one-vote rule. The entire effort to create a stronger union was in jeopardy. Eighty-one-year-old Benjamin Franklin, quiet during most of the deliberations, then addressed the group. According to James Madison's notes, here is what happened next. Mr. President The small progress we have made after 4 or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other-our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ays, is methinks a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the Human Understanding. We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of Government, and examined the different forms of those Republics which having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution now no longer exist. And we have viewed Modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances. In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the Contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection.- Our prayers, Sir, were heard, & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending providence in our favor. I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that "except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest. I therefore beg leave to move-that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that Service-
Michael:

That was such an appropriate excerpt from the beginning days of our country.

I just don't understand how the ACLU and other organizations or persons, think
that God should be left out of our Government. I don't understand that in light
of the fact that God was with our great country from the beginning, and God
was acknowledge as helping America.

Too bad that rule of "Separation of Church and State" had such a
divisive effect.
Aug 13 new
(quote) Michael-556947 said: Obama Goes Against the Grain of What America Represents . Right now in certain countries the governments already regulate religions including the Catholic Church . predominately in socialist countries . there have constantly been these issues arising with the Obama Administration especially with the New Heath care law . this present government will step back for a while . but then start up again including the US military ( as far Christianity ). much of this has been kept quiet by the media .

It was Benjamin Franklin who Credits God for Americas Independence and the Constitution .

The Constitutional Convention had been meeting for five weeks, and had hit a perilous deadlock. The large states were insisting that congressional representation be based on population; the smaller states wanted a one-state-one-vote rule. The entire effort to create a stronger union was in jeopardy. Eighty-one-year-old Benjamin Franklin, quiet during most of the deliberations, then addressed the group. According to James Madison's notes, here is what happened next. Mr. President The small progress we have made after 4 or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other-our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ays, is methinks a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the Human Understanding. We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of Government, and examined the different forms of those Republics which having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution now no longer exist. And we have viewed Modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances. In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the beginning of the Contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection.- Our prayers, Sir, were heard, & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending providence in our favor. I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that "except the Lord build the House they labour in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest. I therefore beg leave to move-that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that Service-
Michael:

That was such an appropriate excerpt from the beginning days of our country.

I just don't understand how the ACLU and other organizations or persons, think
that God should be left out of our Government. I don't understand that in light
of the fact that God was with our great country from the beginning, and God
was acknowledge as helping America.

Too bad that rule of "Separation of Church and State" had such a
divisive effect.
Aug 13 new
(quote) Marianne-100218 said: ...
I just don't understand how the ACLU and other organizations or persons, think
that God should be left out of our Government....Too bad that rule of "Separation of Church and State" had such a divisive effect.
Sin begets sin. The sin of the Christians of yore in persecuting Christians of sects and denominations not their own, instead of living by Christ's desire that all others should 'see how these Christians love each other', gave rise to the perceived need to keep God out of the Government, the Episcopalian God out of the national government, or the Baptist God out of a southern state government, or the Puritan God out of some small New England town council.

It was not atheists or Muslims who brought about the need to fear God-in-Government but Christians themselves in the foolish low-grade civil war between their sects and denominations in days gone by. There were never any fears that the government could be taken over by Norse or Hindu gods. Atheists and irreligious are only beneficiaries. They were not the primary cause of the disease. They are only opportunistic infections, benefiting now from the constitutional provisions set in stone because Christians who ostensibly had the light of Christ in them couldn't live in peace with each other, not just in the American colonies but in the Old Country from which the Puritans felt compelled to flee. To use Pogo: "We have met the enemy and he is us."
Aug 13 new
The whole point is the socialist through out history want to do away with God . this regime is constantly finding ways to do it . so many times over different issues its brought up church .the founding fathers were deeply devoted they would be upset with what is happening .
Aug 13 new
(quote) Roystan-340472 said: Sin begets sin. The sin of the Christians of yore in persecuting Christians of sects and denominations not their own, instead of living by Christ's desire that all others should 'see how these Christians love each other', gave rise to the perceived need to keep God out of the Government, the Episcopalian God out of the national government, or the Baptist God out of a southern state government, or the Puritan God out of some small New England town council.

It was not atheists or Muslims who brought about the need to fear God-in-Government but Christians themselves in the foolish low-grade civil war between their sects and denominations in days gone by. There were never any fears that the government could be taken over by Norse or Hindu gods. Atheists and irreligious are only beneficiaries. They were not the primary cause of the disease. They are only opportunistic infections, benefiting now from the constitutional provisions set in stone because Christians who ostensibly had the light of Christ in them couldn't live in peace with each other, not just in the American colonies but in the Old Country from which the Puritans felt compelled to flee. To use Pogo: "We have met the enemy and he is us."
The division in Christianity that was the result of the Protestant "Reformation" is the cardinal sin that opened the door to the liberal ideas of Separation of Church and State, which has now flowered into a determination to remove any public attempt to live in a Christian way.

The interesting part, and one that few know about but is written of in Christopher Ferrara's book "Liberty: The God that Failed," is that many Protestants knew about the coming direction a century before prayer was banned in public schools. The National Reform Association (not be be confused with the National Rifle Association) believed that the lack of mention of God or Jesus Christ was the "original sin of the nation," and that it would lead to the First Amendment being interpreted in a way that removed God from the public life. They desired to amend the Preamble of the Constitution to read as follows:

We the People of the United States, [humbly acknowledging Almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Ruler among the nations, his revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government,] and in order to form a more perfect union...[Liberty, pg 522]

Interestingly, and most explicitly prophetic, in 1874 the President of Wheaton College, Prof. Charles Blanchard gave an address to the National Reform Association entitled "The Conflict of Law," where he predicted that unless the above amendment was adopted no law favorable to Christianity "can stand a suit in the Supreme Court of the United States...this conflict of law is inevitable and irrepressible. Our laws will be heathenized or our Constitution Christianized, and Americans must soon decide which they will have done." Another, Felix Brunot, noted the character of the Constitution and predicted the outcome and result. "One by one your Christian laws...and all the Christian features of State Constitutions, must come to the test of the Constitution of the United States; and they must fall before it." [Liberty, pg533-534]
Aug 14 new
(quote) Roystan-340472 said: Sin begets sin. The sin of the Christians of yore in persecuting Christians of sects and denominations not their own, instead of living by Christ's desire that all others should 'see how these Christians love each other', gave rise to the perceived need to keep God out of the Government, the Episcopalian God out of the national government, or the Baptist God out of a southern state government, or the Puritan God out of some small New England town council.

It was not atheists or Muslims who brought about the need to fear God-in-Government but Christians themselves in the foolish low-grade civil war between their sects and denominations in days gone by. There were never any fears that the government could be taken over by Norse or Hindu gods. Atheists and irreligious are only beneficiaries. They were not the primary cause of the disease. They are only opportunistic infections, benefiting now from the constitutional provisions set in stone because Christians who ostensibly had the light of Christ in them couldn't live in peace with each other, not just in the American colonies but in the Old Country from which the Puritans felt compelled to flee. To use Pogo: "We have met the enemy and he is us."
There sure are a lot of Christian sects, as you say.

I thought that the Amendment meant that Congress could not establish
an official religion in America, like the Church of England is headed by
the Queen.

Also, that the Government could not stop anyone from
practicing their own relation.

But I would suspect that different denominations of Christianity had
an influence on that Amendment.
Aug 14 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: The division in Christianity that was the result of the Protestant "Reformation" is the cardinal sin that opened the door to the liberal ideas of Separation of Church and State, which has now flowered into a determination to remove any public attempt to live in a Christian way.

The interesting part, and one that few know about but is written of in Christopher Ferrara's book "Liberty: The God that Failed," is that many Protestants knew about the coming direction a century before prayer was banned in public schools. The National Reform Association (not be be confused with the National Rifle Association) believed that the lack of mention of God or Jesus Christ was the "original sin of the nation," and that it would lead to the First Amendment being interpreted in a way that removed God from the public life. They desired to amend the Preamble of the Constitution to read as follows:

We the People of the United States, [humbly acknowledging Almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Ruler among the nations, his revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government,] and in order to form a more perfect union...[Liberty, pg 522]

Interestingly, and most explicitly prophetic, in 1874 the President of Wheaton College, Prof. Charles Blanchard gave an address to the National Reform Association entitled "The Conflict of Law," where he predicted that unless the above amendment was adopted no law favorable to Christianity "can stand a suit in the Supreme Court of the United States...this conflict of law is inevitable and irrepressible. Our laws will be heathenized or our Constitution Christianized, and Americans must soon decide which they will have done." Another, Felix Brunot, noted the character of the Constitution and predicted the outcome and result. "One by one your Christian laws...and all the Christian features of State Constitutions, must come to the test of the Constitution of the United States; and they must fall before it." [Liberty, pg533-534]

We the People of the United States, [humbly acknowledging Almighty God as the source of all authority and power in civil government, the Lord Jesus Christ as the Ruler among the nations, his revealed will as the supreme law of the land, in order to constitute a Christian government,] and in order to form a more perfect union...[Liberty, pg 522]
----------------------------------------------
I don't think that to put what I underlined in the Preamble of the Constitution
would have been a good idea.

After all, there were Jews in America at that time. It would not
have been fair to them or to other religions that do not believe in Christ. But
referring to an Almighty God does recognize someone greater than our US
government.
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