Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

A place to learn, mingle, and share

Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

To be or not to be

Sep 8th 2013 new
When we identify and acknowledge a vocation to marriage, do we then believe that there is a vocation to one person (to fulfill that role)?
Meaning, there is only one individual for us in completing God's work here- in order to draw closer to spiritual perfection?
In the case of my own parents, this would seem the case. Or when I think of Alice von Hildebrand and her husband, or Joseph and and the Virgin Mary.



Sep 8th 2013 new
PS- I do not harbor delusions that a comparison can be drawn between Mary and Joseph and the other couples I cited! But one thing they had in common: a vigorous walk towards spiritual perfection. (Well in the case of Joseph- I suppose it was not necessary for Mary as she was kept free from original sin.)
Sep 8th 2013 new
Yes and no?


A call to be married is not exclusive of a call to suffer, and to suffer within the structure of the marriage.


The norm of a marriage is that it is to be both unitive and procreative. There are many marriages which are more procreative than unitive and hints of this are seen in Genesis 3:16 where the state of Eve's marriage after eating the fruit is that she will desire her husband while the reciprocal desire from him seems to be the desire to rule over her. Is Adam completing Eve's vocation to marry or Eve's vocation to suffer within marriage?


In the case of the marriage of Mary and Joseph, which was unitive but not procreative, if Joseph was a normal man with the normal connubial desires (like his foster son who was human in all things but sin), was Mary completing Joseph's vocation to marry or Joseph's vocation to suffer the forbearance of some desirable things normal to marriage? And yet theirs, by definition, had to be a marriage, even if it was outside the norm, or their living under one roof would have been a scandal under Jewish law, not one jot or tittle, as Jesus said, was to be changed by its impending evolution into Christianity.


So, this 'one person (to fulfill that role)' may not necessarily be the sweet godsend that you fondly imagine. In the case of marriages that are broken but cannot be annulled, that person may be a sour harbinger of suffering within the structure of a marriage that can be dissolved by the divorce laws of the land but not by the spiritual laws of the cosmos.


For those whose marriages can be annulled, for the one individual who was completing a work of suffering in his or her spouse, there will, hopefully, be another who can complete a work of joy for that same spouse in a new and better marriage.


Of course, even for those whose marriages cannot be annulled, there is always the hope that the parties may be able to re-unite so that the completion of work in suffering can also be replaced by a completion of work in joy.
Sep 8th 2013 new
(quote) Roystan-340472 said: Yes and no?


A call to be married is not exclusive of a call to suffer, and to suffer within the structure of the marriage.


The norm of a marriage is that it is to be both unitive and procreative. There are many marriages which are more procreative than unitive and hints of this are seen in Genesis 3:16 where the state of Eve's marriage after eating the fruit is that she will desire her husband while the reciprocal desire from him seems to be the desire to rule over her. Is Adam completing Eve's vocation to marry or Eve's vocation to suffer within marriage?


In the case of the marriage of Mary and Joseph, which was unitive but not procreative, if Joseph was a normal man with the normal connubial desires (like his foster son who was human in all things but sin), was Mary completing Joseph's vocation to marry or Joseph's vocation to suffer the forbearance of some desirable things normal to marriage? And yet theirs, by definition, had to be a marriage, even if it was outside the norm, or their living under one roof would have been a scandal under Jewish law, not one jot or tittle, as Jesus said, was to be changed by its impending evolution into Christianity.


So, this 'one person (to fulfill that role)' may not necessarily be the sweet godsend that you fondly imagine. In the case of marriages that are broken but cannot be annulled, that person may be a sour harbinger of suffering within the structure of a marriage that can be dissolved by the divorce laws of the land but not by the spiritual laws of the cosmos.


For those whose marriages can be annulled, for the one individual who was completing a work of suffering in his or her spouse, there will, hopefully, be another who can complete a work of joy for that same spouse in a new and better marriage.


Of course, even for those whose marriages cannot be annulled, there is always the hope that the parties may be able to re-unite so that the completion of work in suffering can also be replaced by a completion of work in joy.
On that happy note.....
Sep 8th 2013 new
Quick note:
Dietrich von Hildrebrand, in his book titled, "Marriage: Mystery of Faithful Love" states there are some called to unhappy marriages. This is beyond my comprehension yet I don't necessarily dispute it.
Sep 8th 2013 new
(quote) Sara-979131 said: Quick note:
 there are some called to unhappy marriages. This is beyond my comprehension yet I don't necessarily dispute it.
I second that Sara. Never read the book.
Sep 8th 2013 new
(quote) Sara-979131 said: When we identify and acknowledge a vocation to marriage, do we then believe that there is a vocation to one person (to fulfill that role)?
Meaning, there is only one individual for us in completing God's work here- in order to draw closer to spiritual perfection?
In the case of my own parents, this would seem the case. Or when I think of Alice von Hildebrand and her husband, or Joseph and and the Virgin Mary.



Hi Sara - I think I understand what you are asking - if my vocation is marriage - is there only one person who can fulfill that role. My answer to this is this - My husband and I had a wonderful marriage - that was filled with Christ, Love and Joy. He passed away seven years ago. Did I have my one and only and he has passed and now I am to destined to live a life alone?

I need go back to my basics of who God is - God loves ALL his people. He has an unconditional love and he desires us to be happy. God is not cruel and to me it would be very cruel of God to have only one good (no one is perfect) partner, mate, spouse etc, I firmly believe that are several good possible spouses - we need to find one. CM is one tool we can use to find one of those people along with, socializing with others and going to mass. I met my husband at church! wink

Maybe I misunderstood your post - I apologize if that is the case and I have no intention of "hi-jacking" your thread.

Blessings,
Ginger
Sep 8th 2013 new
In my past involvement with the Marriage Encounter movement, they taught that there are at least four or five different people (that you will meet in life) with whom you could have a successful marriage. It is more a matter of communication and being whom God called you to be.
Sep 9th 2013 new
"The One" is a fabrication of the media and romantic poets. While it may be true for some I think for the vast majority of us there's so many people out there that we are compatible with. It's a matter of running into one of them at the right time. It's important to remember too that love is a choice. We may choose to love someone and they may choose not to love us. Either because they aren't ready or maybe they aren't in the right place or put other priorites ahead of their personal life such as career.
Sep 9th 2013 new
Hi Sara-

to build on what Sue and Ann said, there is not just one person to whom you could marry in your entire life. There may in fact be two at the same time, and you have to choose. The idea of the soul mate is pretty terrible. By this I mean that there is one person out there with whom you would be completely compatible, and if you find this person your troubles are over. Not true at all. Any relationship involves work!

The following are my thoughts- comments welcome! Inside of our call to Chastity is this ability to become a "versatile lover" we'll call it- the ability to interact with Charity, truth and great romance to a wide variety of people. In becoming more like Christ we are able to overcome both our sin and the sin of others, making it easier for Christ to match us up. Christ will lead you to a person, and give you the opportunity to love them. At this moment and place, that is the one! If you do not take the opportunity they will eventually cease to be the one. If you do take the opportunity as a couple you choose to move forward in God's plan, and you move in God's Spirit. The Spirit will sometimes give you specific directions, but more likely the Spirit provides a "space" for us to discover and grow in each other. The Fruits and gifts of the spirit- Joy, peace, fortitude, wisdom, etc are not usually directions but rather virtues or states of being that allow us to be fully our self. As long as we stay in this space we have both freedom and safety. In growing together in this Spirit that we each change and the couple with the Spirit becomes the image of the Trinity, which is God's plan for us.

Of course from God's point of view of looking at creation from eternity, there was always only the one. scratchchin

Peace in Christ,

Matt
Posts 1 - 10 of 12