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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Oct 19th 2013 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: Yes you did upset me.I am tired of Traditional Catholics being called less than Catholic and accused of not following the Faith.
Ah, if only they were in fact traditional Catholics! They are not.
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Oct 19th 2013 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: Ah, if only they were in fact traditional Catholics! They are not.
Whatever Paul.You are just an instigator.
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Oct 20th 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: Whether the members of the SSPX are fully Catholic is not the issue. In the words of Pope Benedict XVI:

The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church. There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved. In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remiss...



clearly stated.
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Oct 20th 2013 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: Whatever Paul.You are just an instigator.
What have I instigated?

All I did was make a statement of fact.
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Oct 20th 2013 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: Ah, if only they were in fact traditional Catholics! They are not.
Your pouring gasoline on the fire.A statement of fact.
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Oct 20th 2013 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: Your pouring gasoline on the fire.A statement of fact.
correction you're
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Oct 20th 2013 new
(quote) Gabor-19025 said:

POPE FRANCIS
The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens. Ideology chases away the people. It creates distances between people and it distances the Church from the people. But it is a serious illness, this Christian ideology.

Pope Francis also added there is a difference between praying and simply saying prayers. People carried away by ideology, he concluded, do not pray, rather they repeat memorized prayers.

I an going to pray a memorized prayer (the Rosary) for this man immediately.

Gabor,

Concerning the comments by Pope Francis about praying....

I respectfully suggest that the real meaning and context of the comments (attributed to Pope Francis) concerning "simply saying prayers" and "repeating memorized prayers" has been somewhat off-target (in my opinion) in this thread. From my research, this is not really what he was trying to convey. Here are two sources from Pope Francis's comments. One from a recent homily, as reported by National Catholic Register.... and the other from Francis's recent published interview. I think that his full comments, as presented in those sources, give a much fuller and well-rounded meaning of what he was trying to convey. I fact, in his interview, Francis even said that he prays the Rosary... apparently every day.

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Copied from this National Catholic Register article of 10/8/2013
www.ncregister.com

Title: Pope Francis: Prayer Is Not Simply Saying Words Like a Parrot


VATICAN CITY In his daily Mass, Pope Francis touched on the importance of prayer and forgiveness in the life of a Christian, warning against common attitudes that close the door to God.

The Lord tells us: The first task in life is this: prayer. But not the prayer of words, like a parrot; but the prayer of the heart: gazing on the Lord, hearing the Lord, asking the Lord, said the Holy Father during his Oct. 8 daily homily.
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The other source is his recent interview: americamagazine.org
Copied from the interview

Prayer

I ask Pope Francis about his preferred way to pray.

I pray the breviary every morning. I like to pray with the psalms. Then, later, I celebrate Mass. I pray the Rosary. What I really prefer is adoration in the evening, even when I get distracted and think of other things, or even fall asleep praying. In the evening then, between seven and eight oclock, I stay in front of the Blessed Sacrament for an hour in adoration. But I pray mentally even when I am waiting at the dentist or at other times of the day.

Prayer for me is always a prayer full of memory, of recollection, even the memory of my own history or what the Lord has done in his church or in a particular parish. For me it is the memory of which St. Ignatius speaks in the First Week of the Exercises in the encounter with the merciful Christ crucified. And I ask myself: What have I done for Christ? What am I doing for Christ? What should I do for Christ? It is the memory of which Ignatius speaks in the Contemplation for Experiencing Divine Love, when he asks us to recall the gifts we have received. But above all, I also know that the Lord remembers me. I can forget about him, but I know that he never, ever forgets me. Memory has a fundamental role for the heart of a Jesuit: memory of grace, the memory mentioned in Deuteronomy, the memory of Gods works that are the basis of the covenant between God and the people. It is this memory that makes me his son and that makes me a father, too.
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My comments:
When I read his comments in the full context of his homily and his interview, I don't get the impression at all that he is denigrating prayers that are repetitious (like the Rosary). What I hear is that he is saying that we should pray those (repetitious) prayers with deep reflection, contemplation and praying "from the heart", rather than just "tuning out" (my words) and repeating one word after another without thought, contemplation or reflection.

Just my thoughts.

Ed


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Oct 21st 2013 new
Ed,

You made a fair point. I am struggling with the confusion of the Pope's comments. A recent example is one week the Holy Father said:

a) "Everyone has his own concept of good and evil and should follow it." (completely not Catholic teaching) followed by:

b) "The Devil must be fought and the evil of moral relativism." (this is completely Catholic)

The above are not exact quotes but the spirit of what was said. The two comments are completely contradictory so we are confused Catholics getting more confused.

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Oct 21st 2013 new
(quote) Gabor-19025 said: Ed,

You made a fair point. I am struggling with the confusion of the Pope's comments. A recent example is one week the Holy Father said:

a) "Everyone has his own concept of good and evil and should follow it." (completely not Catholic teaching) followed by:

b) "The Devil must be fought and the evil of moral relativism." (this is completely Catholic)

The above are not exact quotes but the spirit of what was said. The two comments are completely contradictory so we are confused Catholics getting more confused.

Congratulations! You've just become part of the problem. I suggest not only getting the exact quotes, but also reviewing the context and let us know if the above paraphrase still seems accurate.

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Oct 21st 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: Congratulations! You've just become part of the problem. I suggest not only getting the exact quotes, but also reviewing the context and let us know if the above paraphrase still seems accurate.

"Given and this is the fundamental thing that God's mercy has no limits, if He is approached with a sincere and repentant heart," the pope wrote, "the question for those who do not believe in God is to abide by their own conscience. There is sin, also for those who have no faith, in going against one's conscience. Listening to it and abiding by it means making up one's mind about what is good and evil."

Since when is what I think or what I make my mind about any topic make it right or wrong? Since when is a poorly formed conscience OK to follow?

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