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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Can Atheists Be Pleasing to God?
  • Date Preached: 2013-10-20
  • Sermon length: 26 minutes 28 seconds
www.audiosancto.org
Oct 25th 2013 new
I read an excerpt of what I think is this sermon on the Rorate Caeli blog. If it's the same one, I think it's definitely worth AT LEAST reading the excerpt:

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com

Oct 25th 2013 new
"Atheism is against God, it is opposed to God. It denies God His rights that are due to him from His creatures. It does not render to God what is God's. The Scriptures are clear that atheists are fools, corrupt, abominable in their ways. They cannot please God; they cannot do any work that is good in the sight of God; their consciences are violated by the very fact they deny God's existence. Our Lord summed up what happens to them: "he that believeth not is condemned." We must not affirm atheists in any way, but obey Our Lord seek their conversion."

Pretty sound words to me.
Oct 25th 2013 new
I was impressed by the priest, not only that he cited the saints, but also the First Vatican Council and Romans ch. 1. :)
Oct 25th 2013 new
I don't know if "pleasing" is the right word, but God loves them and extends invitations to accept his grace and truth. We must consider ourselves fortunate to have been born and baptized Catholic and also that, as adults, we have responded to his invitations by making the effort to live as he wills. No doubt it pleases God when an atheist acts nobly and morally. It means there that this person may one day accept God's truth.

How can we fathom the boundless love which God has for everyone? God does not hate even the worst sinner. God abases himself to make his grace available to such people. He does not shun them, he keeps extending opportunities. I'm sure that a person who consciously rejects such opportunities eventually receives fewer of them. But read the Gospels. The lost sheep, the great rejoicing over the one sinner who repents, the lost coin, all these reveal a God who created us to know love, and serve him in this world and to be happy with him forever in the next. It pains God, rather than angers him, when his message and invitations are rejected. How many do we ourselves reject - even while living within the Church??
Oct 25th 2013 new

Let's not lick our lips with anticipatory glee that atheists will be punished. We're called to imitate God, and God is love. God only punishes when all avenues of mercy are finally and irremediably closed (i.e. after an unrepentant death). Until then, God does everything possible to encourage the wayward to embrace him.

If we see atheists as God sees them, we will perceive the sorrow that God experiences when the souls he created reject him. Rather than say they'll get what's coming to them, let's pray, love them, and reach out to them. Remember, there but for the grace of God, goes any of us.

theheart
Oct 25th 2013 new
David, the issue is not whether there is still hope while the sinner yet breathes. We know to a certainty there is yet hope, however, we also know to a certainty that God does condemn those who die in final impenitence. Nothing in the excerpt contradicts this. I think that the issue here is that people are interpreting this sermon as a contradiction of the Holy Father on whether atheists can attain to salvation. There is no question that they can, along the same avenue as the rest of us: the one, holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Oct 25th 2013 new
(quote) David-364112 said:
Let's not lick our lips with anticipatory glee that atheists will be punished. We're called to imitate God, and God is love. God only punishes when all avenues of mercy are finally and irremediably closed (i.e. after an unrepentant death). Until then, God does everything possible to encourage the wayward to embrace him.

If we see atheists as God sees them, we will perceive the sorrow that God experiences when the souls he created reject him. Rather than say they'll get what's coming to them, let's pray, love them, and reach out to them. Remember, there but for the grace of God, goes any of us.


Nobody is licking their lips hoping for anyone's downfall.

God enlightens every Man and Woman who is born into this World. We don't see it,but every soul gets the chance to find God and accept Him during their life.Even the guy on the desert island.It is also their right of free will to reject Him.

Gospel of ST.John Chapter 1ver.9 *That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world.
Oct 25th 2013 new
(quote) Chelsea-743484 said: I read an excerpt of what I think is this sermon on the Rorate Caeli blog. If it's the same one, I think it's definitely worth AT LEAST reading the excerpt:

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/10/atheists-cannot-be-saved-and-cannot.html

Yes,it's the same one.
Oct 25th 2013 new
(quote) Bernard-2709 said: Nobody is licking their lips hoping for anyone's downfall.

God enlightens every Man and Woman who is born into this World. We don't see it,but every soul gets the chance to find God and accept Him during their life.Even the guy on the desert island.It is also their right of free will to reject Him.

Gospel of ST.John Chapter 1ver.9 *That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world.
It is charitable to lead someone to God. By condoning atheism and patting someone on the back and saying that atheism is OK is an act of false charity. The line between charity/false charity has become very blurred.
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