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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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HONESTY

Dec 5th 2013 new
I had a revelation tonight. First of all that I've become the modern day equivalent of a flagellant. And since Rome has historically had a problem with them I really need to stop writing in these forums. Second is that the sin (whatever sin it is) is not the worst part of it. It's talking about it in public.

This is one reason we confess our sins to a priest I believe. And I know this is one of the biggest things that is wrong with our society. Too many people talking about their sins honestly and openly. Justifying them even. To the point where if you don't "they" label you a hypocrite.

It hurts people. People who are lonely. People who are trying to be good Christians. And most importantly by far. It hurts our children.

Not to mention in the process I believe the "talkers" have completely destroyed the very concept of love. Or at very least put it at odds with having fun. Like you can still have one but not the other.

Now the tough part is going to be explaining this and not in the process doing it again. Let's just say I'm thinking about changing some of the answers in my profile to be in agreement with the church. Yeah maybe I do these things, but I understand they are a sin. Though seemingly natural and innocent (if not then just necessary evils) I also understand how those sins have led to many of societies problems. Maybe I can't stop doing them even, but that doesn't mean I don't agree with the church that it is sinful.

So from a dating perspective...

Is that fair to you? If you go to my profile and think I'm some sort of angel. Does it matter to you if that isn't true?

And is it fair to me? Will someone a little more "naughty" pass over my profile because we apparently don't agree? Would I not meet the person I'm a better match for possibly?

But then again is settling for empathy not the greatest hurdle to redemption?

Scratch that last question. That's a whole nother can of worms for sure. Please just think about the first two groups.

I am honestly thinking this through and can't decide what to do. rolling eyes





Dec 5th 2013 new
Is it best for some things to remain our own dirty little secrets? Even in a place like this? Or should I say especially in a place like this maybe? I mean, we are all on the path to God right? Is it important for you to know how far someone is along? Should it matter? Would you want to help someone who is still stumbling? Or would you be worried that that person may bring you down?

I know I'm going to have to sleep on that one. wide eyed
Dec 5th 2013 new
That was a highly apt observation that the American phenomena of airing one's dirty laundry promotes the dissolution of virtue and replaces it with vice as the norm. It even brings it down to such a level that instead of virtue being pursued as a value, vices actually become relabeled as cultural values. Having multiple partners is seen as powerful, a woman dressing provocatively is seen as trendy/fashionable and confident in her looks. All these things are lies from the spirit of the world, but you see what I am trying to say? It is cultural insanity.

On the other hand, it is not right to hide major flaws and issues from a prospective marriage partner when discerning because it lacks truth, and it lacks charity. Also, if the issue is something that wasn't learned until after the wedding, and it is one that would have caused the other person to seriously re-think their partners suitability for commitment, let alone marriage, then that lie is cause for an annulment. Canon law requires that we disclose who we are and that if something serious is purposely left out so to persuade a person that we are something to the contrary, then no Sacrament took place. It is known as an "impediment" to the Sacrament.

So yes, honesty is not only important, but necessary. At the same time, holy prudence is also necessary when communicating with others. Not everyone needs to know everything, and beware of those who gives lots of excuses anyway. Just know that there is no complexity or contradiction between the virtues of truth and prudence --- which is connected to charity (prudence is born out of charity, love of God firstly, and secondly love of neighbor out of that first love/ordered will to God).


Dec 5th 2013 new
Here too?!?!? eyepopping

Kidding kidding. Bless your heart. You are such a wonderful person. I am a wretched soul. Thank you so much for caring.

heart
Dec 5th 2013 new
Hi Eric,
i take anything anyone says in his profile with a big grain of salt. I don't take imperfect measures such as being 4/7 or 7/7 literally. You never know what someone's values truly are until you get to know them.

I have not answered yes to all 7 questions, and I figure that anyone who rules me out on that basis is someone with whom I am not very compatible, Even if I enthusiastically agreed with all 7, I might have to say I disagree with one or two just to weed out the men who are too rigid in their religious views for me. Just kidding! Sort of.

I honestly don't think that those questions have the weight that some people place on them. For example, some men who say they are 7 out of 7 try to sleep with every girlfriend they date for more than 2 weeks. They agree with the teaching n principle, but can't bring themselves to follow it in their own lives. Some people who say they don't agree with 7 out of 7 wait until marriage. If someone is a black and white thinker who can't comprehend that someone could have a deep and growing faith and still not be 7/7 or someone could have a weak faith but answer 7/7 because that is what is expected by some, we are probably not compatible. Some people answer honestly; some people don't. Some people answer yes if they agree in principle, even if they can't always follow the teaching; some people don't. Some people weed people out based on this very flawed tool; others try to get to know people and what is in their heart.

So do whatever feels right and authentic to you. You are most likely to find someone compatible that way.

Shannan
Dec 5th 2013 new
I hasten to add before anyone accuses me of telling Eric to live life in any way that "feels good," I am talking ONLY about how to answer the doctrinal orthodoxy rating tool here on CM.

Shannan
Dec 5th 2013 new
(quote) Eric-929127 said: ....  If you go to my profile and think I'm some sort of angel. Does it matter to you if that isn't true?

And is it fair to me? Will someone a little more "naughty" pass over my profile because we apparently don't agree? Would I not meet the person I'm a better match for possibly?

But then again is settling for empathy not the greatest hurdle to redemption? 
GREAT thoughts!!

To answer your questions:
1. No one with any sense thinks anyone found here is an angel.
2. It's a crap shoot. Who knows? And, since who knows, why worry about it?
3. Settling for empathy sounds to me to be a whole lot better than getting stuck with someone who's going to constantly remind you that you are "unworthy". (I've got relatives like this.) I'll take empathy over nearly anything else, any day.
As for it being a hurdle to redemption...well, I agree that we are called to draw our spouse to salvation. But the fact is, it's his/her own job to actually get there. So if I am kind, understanding, and forgiving and you choose to take that as license to continue to fail to improve -- it's not actually my fault. After all, God is kind, understanding, and forgiving, too.

Again, a great post. thumbsup
Dec 5th 2013 new
BTW, this kind of thought demonstrates the value of a site like CM. Even though we may not find the love of our life here, we may learn and grow spiritually and change our priorities and values and our approach to living them.
Dec 5th 2013 new
(quote) Marge-938695 said: BTW, this kind of thought demonstrates the value of a site like CM. Even though we may not find the love of our life here, we may learn and grow spiritually and change our priorities and values and our approach to living them.
I agree
Dec 5th 2013 new
(quote) Marge-938695 said: GREAT thoughts!!

To answer your questions:
1. No one with any sense thinks anyone found here is an angel.
2. It's a crap shoot. Who knows? And, since who knows, why worry about it?
3. Settling for empathy sounds to me to be a whole lot better than getting stuck with someone who's going to constantly remind you that you are "unworthy". (I've got relatives like this.) I'll take empathy over nearly anything else, any day.
As for it being a hurdle to redemption...well, I agree that we are called to draw our spouse to salvation. But the fact is, it's his/her own job to actually get there. So if I am kind, understanding, and forgiving and you choose to take that as license to continue to fail to improve -- it's not actually my fault. After all, God is kind, understanding, and forgiving, too.

Again, a great post.
Wow Marge, That was so great! You go girl!!!

Who knows how many swords (or hand grenades) have been yielded in the Holy Righteous Army of me minding your business. Not to be confused with "Am I my brother's keeper?" The real lack of charity in both attitudes wind up destroying relationships in the name of honesty. We ARE NOT to be "Jealous Guardians of each other's virtue". Christ wasn't. Mary wasn't. Love gives each other enough room for a soul to find their way to God. The Holy Wives who were canonized became saints by tending to their own sanctity and praying for their loved ones.

You always weigh in great Marge, but this one just rang my bell.
Thanks
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