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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Egalitarian cause

Dec 28 new

Hello everyone,

I have a question for you. By posting this, I wish us to explore this topic and by no means am looking for an answer etched in stone due to certain situations requiring a fluid response. A CM man I was recently exchanging messages with had as one interview question the topic of who pays for a date. He asked if the man should, the woman, or both should share the cost of the date/meal/etc..
I asked him about this interview question and why he chose it. You, will learn a lot about someone if you ask about their customized interview questions! So this fellow replied that he does not believe a man should pay for a date. He stated to me that since we live in an egalitarian society that women are quite capable of sharing the cost with the man. My response to him was that in traditional Catholic courthship, should a couple choose to enter it, that typically the man will initially pay for the meal etc. And here is the premise I found it upon: that women desire to be cherished, while men desire to be admired. You can either choose to support this belief, or not. Certainly it is your free will to decide such a thing. I choose to believe this, by years of experience dating and knowing what works for me, interiorly speaking. Meaning, that I am motivated when as a woman I feel cherished by my beloved.
So, what are your own sentiments about whether a man ought to pay/not pay for the cost of a date? And what is your reasoning?
Do you also believe that in a sense that when a fellow pays for the date, that he is showing he is pursuing you, and leading?

Thanks!
Sara rosary





Dec 28 new
In my own experience I lose interest quickly if I have to pay for everything. I've been screwed a few times. If I pay for the meal, it's nice if she pays for the taxi or movie tickets or at least offers to do something.....
That said the majority of costs courting should be met by the guy maybe 66% (2/3rds of the time).
Dec 28 new
This is going to be very interesting! I hope we can keep a peaceful tone to this thread. Thanks Mark for commenting. From my experience I don't think women assume the guy to pay 100% of time but initially, most of the time.

Also, clarification needed. A Catholic psychologist I know once gave a talk where he said that women area motivated when they are cherished, while men are motivated when they are admired. Once again, you can either choose to support this belief, or not. But for the sake of interest, I post it.

Dec 28 new
(quote) Sara-979131 said:

Hello everyone,

I have a question for you. By posting this, I wish us to explore this topic and by no means am looking for an answer etched in stone due to certain situations requiring a fluid response. A CM man I was recently exchanging messages with had as one interview question the topic of who pays for a date. He asked if the man should, the woman, or both should share the cost of the date/meal/etc..
I asked him about this interview question and why he chose it. You, will learn a lot about someone if you ask about their customized interview questions! So this fellow replied that he does not believe a man should pay for a date. He stated to me that since we live in an egalitarian society that women are quite capable of sharing the cost with the man. My response to him was that in traditional Catholic courthship, should a couple choose to enter it, that typically the man will initially pay for the meal etc. And here is the premise I found it upon: that women desire to be cherished, while men desire to be admired. You can either choose to support this belief, or not. Certainly it is your free will to decide such a thing. I choose to believe this, by years of experience dating and knowing what works for me, interiorly speaking. Meaning, that I am motivated when as a woman I feel cherished by my beloved.
So, what are your own sentiments about whether a man ought to pay/not pay for the cost of a date? And what is your reasoning?
Do you also believe that in a sense that when a fellow pays for the date, that he is showing he is pursuing you, and leading?

Thanks!
Sara





Hi Sara,

This is a good question.

My uncle always asked me when I was going out if I had enough pocket money to cover the cost of dinner, just in case. He made sure I did, lol.

But, I think paying for the date depends on the date. Generally, I expect the guy to pay and am always relieved when the fella insists, because it can be a sticky subject to approach. But, I am not opposed to paying at times either -- their birthday -- or something I wanted to do -like tickets to a concert or something.

The premise that we live in an egalitarian society is absolutely false. We are far from an egalitarian society. But, that is an entire class lecture.

I find it disconcerting when a married couple keeps their funds entirely separate. I have some friends here, whose marriage dissolved beneath this type of arrangement. She made 1/4 of what he did, but expected her to pay exactly half of their joint bills, be the sole provider for her children -- he would coach them but she had to pay for everything related to the sport. He was socking away large portions of his money into his retirement and savings funds but she had no access to them and was not left as his beneficiary. if she found herself short -- he would loan her money along with a lecture and interest. Pete and I spent long hours trying to help them and Pete actually told him that he was really handling that wrong. But, he was undeterred. And, it ended their marriage. She couldn't keep up with the demands and he was out doing anything he wanted to do -- golfing, buying himself new cars, etc. Hers was barely running. In the financial disclosures related to the divorce, she found out it was even more unfair than she had thought it was.

A guy who was insistent the girl pay or they split every date would give me pause.

Now I am not suggesting that every penny be in the joint account. I had a separate account with a small amount of money I had free rein over and Pete would keep portions of his side jobs for his own pocket money, we each had our own allowance of spendable money. But, on the whole 95% of our funds were joint. And, for much of our marriage I was a stay at home mom and Pete the sole provider.

And, yes I find it pleasing to be treated on a date. I also respect that in a date. And, I on my part do not choose extravagant places to go, nor order the most expensive thing on the menu, and I offer to get the tip or think of other ways to reciprocate -- like making dinner instead sometimes.
Dec 28 new
A person would have to be quite liberal to believe in Egalitarian. Some people are born with a silver spoon, others have to work for it and some people know their roles and some don't.

As far as who pays for the meal, here goes my take. I have old beliefs when it comes to dating so I have never pursued in my life, except if you count flirting, whoops. This maybe while I am still here, lol.

The thought of who pays shouldn't be an issue if you are asked by a gentleman to go on a date. A true gentleman will open the door, pull your chair out, and offer to pay for the wine and dinner without feeling screwed. It's called pursing and courting and the lady then feels some respect:) So, if I go on dates, have I paid, why yes! Especially in today's torn up world. Is there usually another date, why no! I don't feel respected if there is so much emphasis on who's paying.

To each there own, but I definitely believe in a man pursing and making a women feel comfortable and liked even a little even if it is only for an evening:)

I hope the secular world didn't destroy it for all of us women that would like to be treated like a lady and not have so much emphasis on who is going to pay for the meal, geeze! I myswell just keep having dinner with friends;)
Just my two cents:)
Dec 28 new
I usually go with the mindset that I will pay for things. But I've found with experience that woman have a wide range of thoughts on this. Just as a note though I usually lean more towards coffee or a snack when I meet someone for the first time I think its less pressured.

But I've found some woman actually feel sort of pressured when I offer to pay because they think things are becoming too "romantic" when they are just feeling me out. They adamantly refuse my offer.

Some graciously accept my offer and just assume its a friendly gesture.

Some see it as a litmus test of whether I'm worthy of them.

I've actually met some that just didn't care.

So I think the question of whether a man is pursuing you or not based on whether he pays needs to be considered in a fuller context. I think its too narrow a way to decide. And I'd hope woman have a bit of grace with men in this area as this has gotten more complicated. I think online dating is still very new. Before a woman and man had a bit more history with each other before dating so that first date probably had more on the line. Now your meeting a woman you have never met in person before.
Dec 28 new
My view is that if the man is pursuing the lady, he should be willing and prepared to pay for a courtship within his means. Only when there is a relationship and the couple, aware of each other's finances, can decide how to proceed. We do live in a society where many women have expendable income. I can see in certain circumstances, a single working woman might have more of an entertainment budget than a divorced father paying spousal/child support. However, he is pursuing this woman. If she is aware of his situation, and offers to contribute, that is completely different than a man 'expecting' her to split the check. That comes off as cheap (lacking in generosity). My .02 cents.
Dec 28 new
(quote) Joseph-903200 said: I usually go with the mindset that I will pay for things. But I've found with experience that woman have a wide range of thoughts on this. Just as a note though I usually lean more towards coffee or a snack when I meet someone for the first time I think its less pressured.

But I've found some woman actually feel sort of pressured when I offer to pay because they think things are becoming too "romantic" when they are just feeling me out. They adamantly refuse my offer.

Some graciously accept my offer and just assume its a friendly gesture.

Some see it as a litmus test of whether I'm worthy of them.

I've actually met some that just didn't care.

So I think the question of whether a man is pursuing you or not based on whether he pays needs to be considered in a fuller context. I think its too narrow a way to decide. And I'd hope woman have a bit of grace with men in this area as this has gotten more complicated. I think online dating is still very new. Before a woman and man had a bit more history with each other before dating so that first date probably had more on the line. Now your meeting a woman you have never met in person before.
Hi Joseph,

You are right it is more complicated. I think as you noted in your response that some women sort of freak out as if it is moving too swiftly. I think there is something to this in the fact that we hear in secular worlds -- I bought you dinner -- now you owe me something - - - I always cringe when I see this sort of title in a woman's magazine. And, I think more often than not the remedy to that situation is to pay -- so you don't owe anyone anything --- but I say no respectable man would expect that in the first place -- nor after the third date.
Dec 28 new
(quote) Sara-979131 said: This is going to be very interesting! I hope we can keep a peaceful tone to this thread. Thanks Mark for commenting. From my experience I don't think women assume the guy to pay 100% of time but initially, most of the time.

Also, clarification needed. A Catholic psychologist I know once gave a talk where he said that women area motivated when they are cherished, while men are motivated when they are admired. Once again, you can either choose to support this belief, or not. But for the sake of interest, I post it.

I agree with all you say here, Sara. I feel over the course of courtship that the guy should meet the majority of expenditure.
I dated one woman where I bought flowers, paid for our meals and drinks. Paid for the taxi to the movies. Bought her ticket and ice cream and got her home etc etc. It was an expensive evening! She didn't even respond to my text the following day enquiring if she had enjoyed herself!! What a sucker! rolling eyes
I also feel it is much healthier to discuss 'pooling' resources after marriage. Separate monies, bank accounts etc. seems to me, to be a selfish recipe for disaster.
Dec 28 new
(quote) Lauren-927923 said: Hi Sara,

This is a good question.

My uncle always asked me when I was going out if I had enough pocket money to cover the cost of dinner, just in case. He made sure I did, lol.

But, I think paying for the date depends on the date. Generally, I expect the guy to pay and am always relieved when the fella insists, because it can be a sticky subject to approach. But, I am not opposed to paying at times either -- their birthday -- or something I wanted to do -like tickets to a concert or something.

The premise that we live in an egalitarian society is absolutely false. We are far from an egalitarian society. But, that is an entire class lecture.

I find it disconcerting when a married couple keeps their funds entirely separate. I have some friends here, whose marriage dissolved beneath this type of arrangement. She made 1/4 of what he did, but expected her to pay exactly half of their joint bills, be the sole provider for her children -- he would coach them but she had to pay for everything related to the sport. He was socking away large portions of his money into his retirement and savings funds but she had no access to them and was not left as his beneficiary. if she found herself short -- he would loan her money along with a lecture and interest. Pete and I spent long hours trying to help them and Pete actually told him that he was really handling that wrong. But, he was undeterred. And, it ended their marriage. She couldn't keep up with the demands and he was out doing anything he wanted to do -- golfing, buying himself new cars, etc. Hers was barely running. In the financial disclosures related to the divorce, she found out it was even more unfair than she had thought it was.

A guy who was insistent the girl pay or they split every date would give me pause.

Now I am not suggesting that every penny be in the joint account. I had a separate account with a small amount of money I had free rein over and Pete would keep portions of his side jobs for his own pocket money, we each had our own allowance of spendable money. But, on the whole 95% of our funds were joint. And, for much of our marriage I was a stay at home mom and Pete the sole provider.

And, yes I find it pleasing to be treated on a date. I also respect that in a date. And, I on my part do not choose extravagant places to go, nor order the most expensive thing on the menu, and I offer to get the tip or think of other ways to reciprocate -- like making dinner instead sometimes.
Lauren- thank you for this reply. It's really wonderful to hear how a couple successfully managed their finances thoughtfully and lovingly. I appreciate you outlining your history.

I mentioned there may require at times a "fluid" response to the question of who pays due to some circumstances where the man is in transition mode of careers etc.

If we look at the question solely in secular terms it makes sense that equal payment occur, but when we look at it through the lense of a person-centered theology, one based on the differences of the sexes, then we might arrive at a different answer.






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