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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Obamacare ( yeah, again )

Jan 12th 2014 new
Here is an actual employer's comment on some recent developments :

www.theblaze.com

( it is prolly best to skip the cave level comments - I don't usually post this stuff, but the actual article is clean and on point )
Jan 12th 2014 new
One employer's view, Bernie. People complained when Medicare was introduced, too. And look at its success.
Jan 12th 2014 new
(quote) Carol-1007500 said: One employer's view, Bernie. People complained when Medicare was introduced, too. And look at its success.
Refresh my memory:

How many people lost existing insurance coverage when Medicare was introduced?

How may people ended up paying several times as much for less coverage?

How many were forced to buy separate policies for children under 18 months of age? (I may have the exact age wrong, but you get the idea...)
Jan 12th 2014 new
(quote) Carol-1007500 said: One employer's view, Bernie. People complained when Medicare was introduced, too. And look at its success.
Hi Carol,

Yes, just one employers view. I've put it here since there is not much in the media from where the rubber meets the road.

I suspect that if you look at your practice records you will see a significant increase in the number and cost of things covered. One part of the health care / insurance / coverage problem is the history of limiting nationwide policies, Individual states regulated the insurers, and the minimum levels of coverage. The current national discussion of coverage minimums which many people do not desire is IMHO a bit late. States raised the requirements long before Obamacare, and this law just nationalizes the unsupportable requirements. Tort reform is one suggested cost controlling device, but, again IMHO, would not come close to answering the bigger question.

I am not necessarily challenging the concept of insurance, we had it until my employer had to drop it recently due to cost increases. God blessed us with relatively healthy kids who generally exercised common sense, so the companies made money on us. Others were, bluntly, not so lucky.

Much of the media coverage is ignoring the long term problem.

Part of the new law cuts the " Medis " . The numbers IMHO don't indicate a stable financial success.

Granting arbitrary power to any government, agency, or particular officer of bureaucracy is not a solution to the math of the problem. Kicking the can down the road may feel good to politicians, but doesn't necessarily solve the problem.

Millions of people are having their coverage removed by a government agency. What is the response of the government, President, and agencies to this human misery, and, yes, possible deaths ? Slither, dither, and blather.

An often overlooked aspect is the unlimited growth in size of [ overhead ], and services performed by [ supplies /sales ] government ( the " getters " )when balanced to the shrinking work force, dwindling incomes and net worths, and lowered abilities to pay of the workers / taxpayers ( " the givers " ).

Dog whistling by government, politicians, media won't change bricks into balloons.

No final answers here, Carol. But I would like to see more media time / attention spent on the basic problem.

Jan 13th 2014 new
(quote) Bernie-645443 said: Here is an actual employer's comment on some recent developments :

http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/were-more-than-just-another-obamacare-cancellation-statistic/

( it is prolly best to skip the cave level comments - I don't usually post this stuff, but the actual article is clean and on point )

The whole concept was flawed from the get go. Who would make a decision to knock a whole

entire house down if only one of the ten rooms needed fixing? Only our dear fearless leader,

who seems to lack both common sense and concern for our dear country and its citizens. His

concerns do lie for citizens of other countries, and we all know I mean, "illegals," Maybe next

he will run for "Esteemed Royal Highness of the Universe."

Jan 13th 2014 new
(quote) Bernie-645443 said: Hi Carol,

Yes, just one employers view. I've put it here since there is not much in the media from where the rubber meets the road.

I suspect that if you look at your practice records you will see a significant increase in the number and cost of things covered. One part of the health care / insurance / coverage problem is the history of limiting nationwide policies, Individual states regulated the insurers, and the minimum levels of coverage. The current national discussion of coverage minimums which many people do not desire is IMHO a bit late. States raised the requirements long before Obamacare, and this law just nationalizes the unsupportable requirements. Tort reform is one suggested cost controlling device, but, again IMHO, would not come close to answering the bigger question.

I am not necessarily challenging the concept of insurance, we had it until my employer had to drop it recently due to cost increases. God blessed us with relatively healthy kids who generally exercised common sense, so the companies made money on us. Others were, bluntly, not so lucky.

Much of the media coverage is ignoring the long term problem.

Part of the new law cuts the " Medis " . The numbers IMHO don't indicate a stable financial success.

Granting arbitrary power to any government, agency, or particular officer of bureaucracy is not a solution to the math of the problem. Kicking the can down the road may feel good to politicians, but doesn't necessarily solve the problem.

Millions of people are having their coverage removed by a government agency. What is the response of the government, President, and agencies to this human misery, and, yes, possible deaths ? Slither, dither, and blather.

An often overlooked aspect is the unlimited growth in size of [ overhead ], and services performed by [ supplies /sales ] government ( the " getters " )when balanced to the shrinking work force, dwindling incomes and net worths, and lowered abilities to pay of the workers / taxpayers ( " the givers " ).

Dog whistling by government, politicians, media won't change bricks into balloons.

No final answers here, Carol. But I would like to see more media time / attention spent on the basic problem.

And let us not forget that the employer mandates don't kick in until later this year only because Obummer, with no evident legal authority, decided to delay it.

When the employer mandate does kick in it is estimated that up to 90 million more Americans will lose their health coverage.

So here are the numbers. Obummer care was passed because supposedly 47 million Americans (14.8%) had no health insurance coverage, a manufactured National Scandal. As the individual mandate kicked in a minimum of 8 million Americans lost the coverage they had. That brings the total of Americans without coverage to at least 55 million. When the employer mandate kicks in an estimated 90 million more will lose coverage. That makes the not covered 145 million or 45.7%.

This is an improvement?

Let us not forget, if you are not covered by an employer plan you must obtain your own coverage or face large fines collected by the IRS. Nothing is said about those who do not and will not have employer coverage who cannot afford the exorbitant costs of the mandated polices and cannot afford the fines either.

What do wie do with them, toss them in jail? Are we going to bring back debtors prisons?

Let us examine some facts. If we assume that at the start of this debacle 47 million Americans had no coverage is an accurate figure. As noted 14.*% of the population.

Look back 60 years. How many Americans HAD health insurance either purchased on their own or employer supplied? Roughly about the same 14.8% possibly as much as 20%. In short the vast majority had noi health coverage. Yet everyone recevied health care if they needed and sought it.

Even today,the supposed 47 million could also receive needed health care if the sought it out.

So along with bringing back debtor's prisons are we now going to force all Doctors and Hospital to provide medical care to everyone at no cost or face enormous fines and imprisonment?

You think that is preposterous? Under Medicare, the rules have become so complex that perfect comliance is impossible. So all but the very smallest hos[pitals have to budget no less than $1,000,00.00 that's one million per year to cover the fines they ahve to pay for, in many cases, minor errors in paperwork and reporting that in no way endangered any patient but did satisfy the bureaucrats (better labeled as satraps) need to show their bosses how well they enforce the rules. And that does not even begin to address the added costs for unnessary stafs they have to carry on their payrolls to create and shuffle all that useless paper they have to comply with the Medicare Laws.

Its like the proliferation of useless paper work deal in real estate transactions. When I purcahsed my first hosue in the 1960's all the paper work amounted to a total of less than 15 pages. Those 15 pages included my application for the mortgage, the mortgage itself, the property description the title insurance application and policy, Title recoding application, etc. Not all pages were legal size

The last real estate purchase I was part of (my daughters house) the paperwork was over one and one half inch thick. every sheet legal size.

And those two examples are for the purchase of a single family home. Imagine what it must be for the purchase of commercial property.

Wrap your mind around that and try to extrapolate what medical paperwork must be like to comply with medicare laws. Mind you those medicare rules affect not just the delivery of health to medicare patients or for those government plans that cover the poor, but effect how health care is delivered to everyone.

And we are in the process of turning 100% of medicare care over to the Government. Think about it.


Jan 13th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: And let us not forget that the employer mandates don't kick in until later this year only because Obummer, with no evident legal authority, decided to delay it.

When the employer mandate does kick in it is estimated that up to 90 million more Americans will lose their health coverage.

So here are the numbers. Obummer care was passed because supposedly 47 million Americans (14.8%) had no health insurance coverage, a manufactured National Scandal. As the individual mandate kicked in a minimum of 8 million Americans lost the coverage they had. That brings the total of Americans without coverage to at least 55 million. When the employer mandate kicks in an estimated 90 million more will lose coverage. That makes the not covered 145 million or 45.7%.

This is an improvement?

Let us not forget, if you are not covered by an employer plan you must obtain your own coverage or face large fines collected by the IRS. Nothing is said about those who do not and will not have employer coverage who cannot afford the exorbitant costs of the mandated polices and cannot afford the fines either.

What do wie do with them, toss them in jail? Are we going to bring back debtors prisons?

Let us examine some facts. If we assume that at the start of this debacle 47 million Americans had no coverage is an accurate figure. As noted 14.*% of the population.

Look back 60 years. How many Americans HAD health insurance either purchased on their own or employer supplied? Roughly about the same 14.8% possibly as much as 20%. In short the vast majority had noi health coverage. Yet everyone recevied health care if they needed and sought it.

Even today,the supposed 47 million could also receive needed health care if the sought it out.

So along with bringing back debtor's prisons are we now going to force all Doctors and Hospital to provide medical care to everyone at no cost or face enormous fines and imprisonment?

You think that is preposterous? Under Medicare, the rules have become so complex that perfect comliance is impossible. So all but the very smallest hos[pitals have to budget no less than $1,000,00.00 that's one million per year to cover the fines they ahve to pay for, in many cases, minor errors in paperwork and reporting that in no way endangered any patient but did satisfy the bureaucrats (better labeled as satraps) need to show their bosses how well they enforce the rules. And that does not even begin to address the added costs for unnessary stafs they have to carry on their payrolls to create and shuffle all that useless paper they have to comply with the Medicare Laws.

Its like the proliferation of useless paper work deal in real estate transactions. When I purcahsed my first hosue in the 1960's all the paper work amounted to a total of less than 15 pages. Those 15 pages included my application for the mortgage, the mortgage itself, the property description the title insurance application and policy, Title recoding application, etc. Not all pages were legal size

The last real estate purchase I was part of (my daughters house) the paperwork was over one and one half inch thick. every sheet legal size.

And those two examples are for the purchase of a single family home. Imagine what it must be for the purchase of commercial property.

Wrap your mind around that and try to extrapolate what medical paperwork must be like to comply with medicare laws. Mind you those medicare rules affect not just the delivery of health to medicare patients or for those government plans that cover the poor, but effect how health care is delivered to everyone.

And we are in the process of turning 100% of medicare care over to the Government. Think about it.


Hi Paul,

Sorry to pour gasoline on the fire, but CFR is now 80,000 pages !!! ??? : www.ktbb.com

I remember trying to absorb just the concepts in one lawyer's abstract of Title 29 for a small business start in the early '80's-brutal ! Now looks to be 50 % larger....So the original Obamacare enabling legislation was ~ 2,000 pages. Anyone know how many HHS follow-on pages ? Or the IRS crossover ? Ad infinitum....?

This came in after the original post : pjmedia.com

The " 34 cents " goes here :
www.aaos.org , which appears to be a medical group. The allegation halfway down from pediatric radiologists is staggering in light of all the studies in prenatal development.... I would like to know if there are controlled samples which support these poll numbers ....
Jan 13th 2014 new

This is a very complex topic. Having worked in health care all of my life, the economics of it have always been of particular interest to me. In my view the health care system has been in crisis and has been unraveling at an unsustainable pace - and there is no simple fix. I admire that the current administration has initiated such an important step toward addressing this crisis. There are always adjustment difficulties with major change, particularly when we feel it has been forced upon us.

Our present system has many serious problems. Twenty percent of our health care dollars go into insurance industry profits. I work in a private practice where we employ about one person for every five clinicians just to handle the insurance aspect. Every patient has a different insurance, a different plan, and different plan specifications. It drives us and patients crazy! I'm a Medicare provider as well and there is a lot less confusion in that system. And social responsibility wise, there are many people left without access to care in our current system. There are more insurance lobbyists in Washington that medical groups being able to do so.

I am also a health care consumer. I buy my insurance privately. Unfortunately I am not in the range to get any financial break with Obamacare. But I know many people who can now afford health care coverage with it - and now have access to treatment (where insurance companies previously denied them due to preexisting conditions.)

So, always a believer in balance, I just want to throw my thoughts out there. I have to get to my pile of work-related insurance company paperwork now!



Jan 13th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: And let us not forget that the employer mandates don't kick in until later this year only because Obummer, with no evident legal authority, decided to delay it.

When the employer mandate does kick in it is estimated that up to 90 million more Americans will lose their health coverage.

So here are the numbers. Obummer care was passed because supposedly 47 million Americans (14.8%) had no health insurance coverage, a manufactured National Scandal. As the individual mandate kicked in a minimum of 8 million Americans lost the coverage they had. That brings the total of Americans without coverage to at least 55 million. When the employer mandate kicks in an estimated 90 million more will lose coverage. That makes the not covered 145 million or 45.7%.

This is an improvement?

Let us not forget, if you are not covered by an employer plan you must obtain your own coverage or face large fines collected by the IRS. Nothing is said about those who do not and will not have employer coverage who cannot afford the exorbitant costs of the mandated polices and cannot afford the fines either.

What do wie do with them, toss them in jail? Are we going to bring back debtors prisons?

Let us examine some facts. If we assume that at the start of this debacle 47 million Americans had no coverage is an accurate figure. As noted 14.*% of the population.

Look back 60 years. How many Americans HAD health insurance either purchased on their own or employer supplied? Roughly about the same 14.8% possibly as much as 20%. In short the vast majority had noi health coverage. Yet everyone recevied health care if they needed and sought it.

Even today,the supposed 47 million could also receive needed health care if the sought it out.

So along with bringing back debtor's prisons are we now going to force all Doctors and Hospital to provide medical care to everyone at no cost or face enormous fines and imprisonment?

You think that is preposterous? Under Medicare, the rules have become so complex that perfect comliance is impossible. So all but the very smallest hos[pitals have to budget no less than $1,000,00.00 that's one million per year to cover the fines they ahve to pay for, in many cases, minor errors in paperwork and reporting that in no way endangered any patient but did satisfy the bureaucrats (better labeled as satraps) need to show their bosses how well they enforce the rules. And that does not even begin to address the added costs for unnessary stafs they have to carry on their payrolls to create and shuffle all that useless paper they have to comply with the Medicare Laws.

Its like the proliferation of useless paper work deal in real estate transactions. When I purcahsed my first hosue in the 1960's all the paper work amounted to a total of less than 15 pages. Those 15 pages included my application for the mortgage, the mortgage itself, the property description the title insurance application and policy, Title recoding application, etc. Not all pages were legal size

The last real estate purchase I was part of (my daughters house) the paperwork was over one and one half inch thick. every sheet legal size.

And those two examples are for the purchase of a single family home. Imagine what it must be for the purchase of commercial property.

Wrap your mind around that and try to extrapolate what medical paperwork must be like to comply with medicare laws. Mind you those medicare rules affect not just the delivery of health to medicare patients or for those government plans that cover the poor, but effect how health care is delivered to everyone.

And we are in the process of turning 100% of medicare care over to the Government. Think about it.


Paul: Originally they said 30 million people had no insurance. The new number of

47 million has only been used for the last 2 yeas.

Jan 14th 2014 new
All I know is I will not be able to afford my insurance after 2015 and will have to go without and be penalized for it. Obamacare doesn't take into account that you have other bills and the subsidy would be seen till the end of tax year so if you can't afford to put the money out of pocket for the higher premiums what do you do? Your screwed.
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