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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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I simply can't drop the issues raised in the earlier topic concerning Catholicism and liberal political views.

I raised the issue initially to point out that some of the shortcuts to including or excluding a certain person by virtue of their multiple choice-driven answer to a profile question can quite possibly result in codifying the acceptability of potential matches on mistaken or incomplete assumptions.

I think it might be time to recollect what motivated any of us to join CM - that is, to find others, or another, with whom to share our lives. Yet, rather than emphasize the values we share, our discussions, if they include specific issues, aggressively seek and point out the differences, the unacceptable differences that we have manufactured from a dearth of information. Why would people looking for a life partner focus instead on what often amounts to the condemnation of the individual person?

Given that, despite the fact that we are all created in God's image and are equals, we are each designed in such a fashion as to be completely unique - in other words, God has not gotten lazy and started making carbon copies - we are destined to have some differences. How, then, can we resurrect our original positive goal of finding agreement and consensus from this morass of direct judgments of character, as well as comments using semantics for purposes of making distinctions without a difference?

I think it's high time to begin the Quest for Affirmation.

So, let's separate the judgment of anyone's particular views from the judgment of them as a person.

How would one begin?
Jan 26th 2014 new
I think i saw this Stephen Covey quote in another Thread somewhere.. ;
" We judge ourselves by our Intentions.. and others by their Actions" scratchchin Praying
Jan 26th 2014 new
(quote) Maura-1030942 said: I simply can't drop the issues raised in the earlier topic concerning Catholicism and liberal political views.

I raised the issue initially to point out that some of the shortcuts to including or excluding a certain person by virtue of their multiple choice-driven answer to a profile question can quite possibly result in codifying the acceptability of potential matches on mistaken or incomplete assumptions.

I think it might be time to recollect what motivated any of us to join CM - that is, to find others, or another, with whom to share our lives. Yet, rather than emphasize the values we share, our discussions, if they include specific issues, aggressively seek and point out the differences, the unacceptable differences that we have manufactured from a dearth of information. Why would people looking for a life partner focus instead on what often amounts to the condemnation of the individual person?

Given that, despite the fact that we are all created in God's image and are equals, we are each designed in such a fashion as to be completely unique - in other words, God has not gotten lazy and started making carbon copies - we are destined to have some differences. How, then, can we resurrect our original positive goal of finding agreement and consensus from this morass of direct judgments of character, as well as comments using semantics for purposes of making distinctions without a difference?

I think it's high time to begin the Quest for Affirmation.

So, let's separate the judgment of anyone's particular views from the judgment of them as a person.

How would one begin?
Really Maura these are all really good points you are making, but IMHO this thread belongs in the room for Singles where the separation can begin. Peace of Christ be with you. Dove theheart
Jan 26th 2014 new
(quote) Maura-1030942 said: So, let's separate the judgment of anyone's particular views from the judgment of them as a person.

That's a line that should truly be engraved in stone. It expresses what I've come to regard as my first principle in discussing matters of opinion -- including but not limited to political matters (which is not to say that I'm always successful at it).
Jan 27th 2014 new
(quote) Dave-146273 said: I think i saw this Stephen Covey quote in another Thread somewhere.. ;
" We judge ourselves by our Intentions.. and others by their Actions"
And into which of these categories would one place what any particular individual writes?


Jan 27th 2014 new
(quote) Elizabeth-114955 said: Really Maura these are all really good points you are making, but IMHO this thread belongs in the room for Singles where the separation can begin. Peace of Christ be with you.
I'm afraid you have me at a loss: are there CM members who are NOT singles? And does the search for affirmation necessarily exclude discussions of actual issues of importance? I referred to separating judgment of a person's views from judgment of their value as people - IMHO, as you put it, a more balanced approach to exchanging views should not require removing the subject matter entirely.
Jan 27th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-1049651 said: That's a line that should truly be engraved in stone. It expresses what I've come to regard as my first principle in discussing matters of opinion -- including but not limited to political matters (which is not to say that I'm always successful at it).
Deo volente...
Jan 27th 2014 new
(quote) Maura-1030942 said: I simply can't drop the issues raised in the earlier topic concerning Catholicism and liberal political views.

I raised the issue initially to point out that some of the shortcuts to including or excluding a certain person by virtue of their multiple choice-driven answer to a profile question can quite possibly result in codifying the acceptability of potential matches on mistaken or incomplete assumptions.

I think it might be time to recollect what motivated any of us to join CM - that is, to find others, or another, with whom to share our lives. Yet, rather than emphasize the values we share, our discussions, if they include specific issues, aggressively seek and point out the differences, the unacceptable differences that we have manufactured from a dearth of information. Why would people looking for a life partner focus instead on what often amounts to the condemnation of the individual person?

Given that, despite the fact that we are all created in God's image and are equals, we are each designed in such a fashion as to be completely unique - in other words, God has not gotten lazy and started making carbon copies - we are destined to have some differences. How, then, can we resurrect our original positive goal of finding agreement and consensus from this morass of direct judgments of character, as well as comments using semantics for purposes of making distinctions without a difference?

I think it's high time to begin the Quest for Affirmation.

So, let's separate the judgment of anyone's particular views from the judgment of them as a person.

How would one begin?

Maura:

I will begin by saying that you sure like run-on sentences. It gets a little muddy trying to
get through thoughts not punctuated.

You may not be aware of STM or St. Thomas More, the room where we are posting,
but this room is considered the "War Room." It is not for the faint of heart. And
following the lead of our dear Saint, Thomas More, the "vices of heretics" are pointed
out in no uncertain terms, as STM did during his lifetime. These vices are critical
to ascertain the viability of a potential candidate on a date site, especially a Catholic one.

If you wish to have congeniality in your discussion, the Singles Room is where you
should be posting these topics, as was previously noted by Elizabeth. In this
room, heresies will be pointed out because they are not congruent with the Teachings
of our Mother Church. Your topic of "Catholic vs. Liberal" falls into the category of
the vices of heretics, so there cannot be any compatibility as far as our faith goes.
No wording can alter that fact.



Jan 28th 2014 new

Hi Maura... I am truly disheartened by the lack of respect and civility in some of the responses to your topics. And I would have liked to have seen a higher level of discourse.

It seems to me that the bulk of forum participants have conservative views, both in regards to religion and politics. People tend to hold on to dogmatic beliefs and are often unwilling/unable to dialogue about differences without becoming emotionally escalated. Understanding each other and finding common ground is intellectually challenging and often elusive. (On a larger scale, isn't religious conflict a major cause of war around the world?)

Isn't that why social etiquette advises that we not bring these subjects up in polite conversation and at parties? You can find very pleasant interactions with CM folks in the lighter, breezier topics. Many wisely avoid the heavier, contentious ones for the very reasons you cite above.

Jan 28th 2014 new
(quote) Carol-1007500 said:

Hi Maura... I am truly disheartened by the lack of respect and civility in some of the responses to your topics. And I would have liked to have seen a higher level of discourse.

It seems to me that the bulk of forum participants have conservative views, both in regards to religion and politics. People tend to hold on to dogmatic beliefs and are often unwilling/unable to dialogue about differences without becoming emotionally escalated. Understanding each other and finding common ground is intellectually challenging and often elusive. (On a larger scale, isn't religious conflict a major cause of war around the world?)

Isn't that why social etiquette advises that we not bring these subjects up in polite conversation and at parties? You can find very pleasant interactions with CM folks in the lighter, breezier topics. Many wisely avoid the heavier, contentious ones for the very reasons you cite above.

You're prompting a perhaps-slightly-tangential thought on my part.
In the secular world, arguments about politics often go so wrong because neither side is willing to extend charity to the other. Each tends to assume that the other is either shockingly ignorant or willfully malicious. Also, they may have such different standards that agreement is ruled out from the beginning. For example, one person says 'that's not logical' and the other says 'but logic is itself a socially constructed tool of the patriarchy, designed to legitimize existing power relations" (whew!).
In a Catholic community, these arguments OUGHT to go better, both because each recognizes or should recognize the importance of putting the most charitable construction possible on the words of the other, and because each is presumably appealing to the same moral standard ("Whose position here is most aligned with Scripture, Church teachings and tradition?").
I don't have the experience to know whether it often actually works out this way.
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