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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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Please help me know what The Church teaches. I've always believed that each baby receives it's soul at conception -- isn't that what we are taught?
I just walked out of my Franciscan gathering because my leader and main members believe that female babies do not receive a soul until 40 days after conception. They got that from a book by Mary something I forget. They say there is no discrepancy between believing this and still being pro-life, believing that life is sacred from conception to grave, etc. But this just makes no sense. They say males receive their soul at conception, just not females. This seems to mean though that abortion of female babies before 40 days past conception should be fine since with no soul, it can't really be a human can it????
Anyone - can you help me out here????
Feb 9th 2014 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: Please help me know what The Church teaches. I've always believed that each baby receives it's soul at conception -- isn't that what we are taught?
I just walked out of my Franciscan gathering because my leader and main members believe that female babies do not receive a soul until 40 days after conception. They got that from a book by Mary something I forget. They say there is no discrepancy between believing this and still being pro-life, believing that life is sacred from conception to grave, etc. But this just makes no sense. They say males receive their soul at conception, just not females. This seems to mean though that abortion of female babies before 40 days past conception should be fine since with no soul, it can't really be a human can it????
Anyone - can you help me out here????

I can not answer the question definitely and will not pretend to know. However, there is no scientific debate about when human life begins. It begins at conception. And God is the author of all human life as the Creator.


Feb 9th 2014 new
(quote) Michael-308675 said:

I can not answer the question definitely and will not pretend to know. However, there is no scientific debate about when human life begins. It begins at conception. And God is the author of all human life as the Creator.


I'm with Michael. I was always taught life starts at conception male or female. Odd that your group would discriminate against females. I thought that only happened in China:(
Feb 9th 2014 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: Please help me know what The Church teaches. I've always believed that each baby receives it's soul at conception -- isn't that what we are taught?
I just walked out of my Franciscan gathering because my leader and main members believe that female babies do not receive a soul until 40 days after conception. They got that from a book by Mary something I forget. They say there is no discrepancy between believing this and still being pro-life, believing that life is sacred from conception to grave, etc. But this just makes no sense. They say males receive their soul at conception, just not females. This seems to mean though that abortion of female babies before 40 days past conception should be fine since with no soul, it can't really be a human can it????
Anyone - can you help me out here????
Without a soul you don't live, since the soul is the substance of a human being.

Everything that makes a person, including their life, is present at the moment of conception. Thus, while this might have been a debatable point to the Scholastic philosophers, it can reasonably be said that the moment of ensoulment is the instant of conception.
Feb 9th 2014 new
Watch out for quasi so-called catholic groups. From conception - both male anf female.
Feb 9th 2014 new
"....God knows you, before you were conceived etc....." theheart
Feb 9th 2014 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: I just walked out of my Franciscan gathering because my leader and main members believe that female babies do not receive a soul until 40 days after conception.
What is this group telling you, Rachel? The group is telling you that there is some source OUTSIDE the deposit of faith in which to find infallibly guarded and transmitted divine revelation. This is out of congruence with the First and Second Vatican Councils. On what authority do this group presume to venture farther then the Fathers, I would wonder.

On top of that, the Ven. Mary of Agreda never wrote her work as a binding Church teaching. She wrote down her private revelations because she was commanded to do so, but never was she an infallible source of Catholic doctrine (and neither did she want her work published). Also, do keep in mind that due to controversies regarding faulty translations of her work of obedience, it was for a time placed on the Index of Forbidden Books...notwithstanding any imprimatur.

This venerable nun is NOT a source of Catholic dogma, is not infallible, can transmit error by accident, and could possibly be noting an analogical point that we fail to understand due to lapse of time.
Feb 9th 2014 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: Without a soul you don't live, since the soul is the substance of a human being.

Everything that makes a person, including their life, is present at the moment of conception. Thus, while this might have been a debatable point to the Scholastic philosophers, it can reasonably be said that the moment of ensoulment is the instant of conception.
The above answer nailed it. Also see the CCC paragraphs 2270 ff.
Feb 9th 2014 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: Please help me know what The Church teaches. I've always believed that each baby receives it's soul at conception -- isn't that what we are taught?
I just walked out of my Franciscan gathering because my leader and main members believe that female babies do not receive a soul until 40 days after conception. They got that from a book by Mary something I forget. They say there is no discrepancy between believing this and still being pro-life, believing that life is sacred from conception to grave, etc. But this just makes no sense. They say males receive their soul at conception, just not females. This seems to mean though that abortion of female babies before 40 days past conception should be fine since with no soul, it can't really be a human can it????
Anyone - can you help me out here????
Let's not forget that we are Embodied Spirits not Disembodied Spirits. The Body itself is sacred. We will have our bodies (glorified) in Heaven. We cannot allow the destruction of a body because there may or may not be a soul present yet. We cannot really know by any measurement when God infuses the soul anyway, so why speculate? The Body is still to be treated as a sacred creation of God. If God creates a body, I think we can know He has plans. Who are we, to interfere with God's plans, or to call God's creation of a body alone, worthless? We wouldn't have a "Theology of the Body" if the Body itself was not sacred.

So you want to know what the Church actually teaches on this. I don't recall this particular point coming up in my study of the Catechism. However, the Church is sometimes silent on certain things. But She is not silent on the sacredness of the body. I would suggest calling in your question to the noon hour program on Relevant Radio called "Go ask your Father," and see what they say 1-877-766-3777 and get back to us. I would also encourage you to avoid filling in where the Church is silent from outside sources and giving it the same weight as doctrine.


Feb 9th 2014 new
(quote) Tyler-1057982 said: The above answer nailed it. Also see the CCC paragraphs 2270 ff.

Welcome to the forums Tyler!

In reading the paragraph 2270 it does not specifically say when the soul is infused in the body. 1703 might lead some people to infer that, but each statement alone does not specifically say that, but it does say that from conception we are destined for eternal beatitude. So at least this does say that whatever is there at conception is sacred anyway, so whether or not a soul has been infused yet really becomes a moot point. Still would like to hear what Father Rocky has to say on it. I am not infallible!

2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a personamong which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72 (1703, 357)

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74


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