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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

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Does anyone have any news regarding Pope Francis's opinions or views on Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI's Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum? I am a bit nervous about this since Cardinal Burke was removed from the Congregation for Bishops.

Cardinal Burke was interviewed on EWTN in December and gave somewhat positive remarks on Pope Francis's vague stance on the Extraordinary Form. However, I heard a rumor that a priest (whose opinion I respect and who celebrates only the EF) said that he believed that Burke was being naive on this point.

Any news is appreciated.

Here is the interview of Cardinal Burke: link.
Feb 10th 2014 new
(quote) Patrick-591684 said: Does anyone have any news regarding Pope Francis's opinions or views on Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI's Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum? I am a bit nervous about this since Cardinal Burke was removed from the Congregation for Bishops.

Cardinal Burke was interviewed on EWTN in December and gave somewhat positive remarks on Pope Francis's vague stance on the Extraordinary Form. However, I heard a rumor that a priest (whose opinion I respect and who celebrates only the EF) said that he believed that Burke was being naive on this point.

Any news is appreciated.

Here is the interview of Cardinal Burke: link.
Well, Francis did say that Summorum Pontificum "must not be touched."

But then he acted to bar the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate from saying the EF of the Mass, and placed an administrator over them that is destroying them measure by measure.

So you see why some worry. The words don't match the deeds; the talk does not match the action.
Feb 13th 2014 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: Well, Francis did say that Summorum Pontificum "must not be touched."

But then he acted to bar the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate from saying the EF of the Mass, and placed an administrator over them that is destroying them measure by measure.

So you see why some worry. The words don't match the deeds; the talk does not match the action.
It seems that blogs, such as Rorate Caeli, are doing a disservice to people in regard to these Franciscan Friars. Even though the general commentary given regarding these Friars is sympathetic to their plight, it is nonetheless demonstrated in the reporting that the very problems for which the administrator was placed in charge, are in fact present.

Also, for all the talk that the rights established in Summorum Pontificum are being quashed in regard to these Friars of the Immaculate, it doesn't appear actually to be the truth. It's in the words of the Motu Proprio plainly. I don't see any contradiction in what is reported of the actions of the administrator and articles 2 and 3 of Summorum Pontificum.
Feb 13th 2014 new
(quote) Chelsea-743484 said: It seems that blogs, such as Rorate Caeli, are doing a disservice to people in regard to these Franciscan Friars. Even though the general commentary given regarding these Friars is sympathetic to their plight, it is nonetheless demonstrated in the reporting that the very problems for which the administrator was placed in charge, are in fact present.

Also, for all the talk that the rights established in Summorum Pontificum are being quashed in regard to these Friars of the Immaculate, it doesn't appear actually to be the truth. It's in the words of the Motu Proprio plainly. I don't see any contradiction in what is reported of the actions of the administrator and articles 2 and 3 of Summorum Pontificum.
I've paid attention to it as well, and have a different impression. Related to their reporting is the next couple of links, the first from the aforementioned Rorate Caeli.

rorate-caeli.blogspot.com

The second is the retraction of the charge leveled against Fr. Manelli concerning the real estate thing, after his family threatened legal action against Fr. Volpi.

eponymousflower.blogspot.com
Feb 13th 2014 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: I've paid attention to it as well, and have a different impression. Related to their reporting is the next couple of links, the first from the aforementioned Rorate Caeli.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-not-so-immaculate-curia-they-dont.html

The second is the retraction of the charge leveled against Fr. Manelli concerning the real estate thing, after his family threatened legal action against Fr. Volpi.

http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2014/02/franciscans-of-immaculate-exonerated.html
It has seemed to me that the reason the Pope chose what he did was maybe the same reaction of the just judge in the Bible, when one woman stole another woman's baby and the other wouldn't return the baby. The judge suggested to cut the baby in half, well, this is sort of what has been done. I think it was to test obedience. However, Fr. Manelli has always been obedient. For some reason, there are factions that see the traditional Mass as part of a "traditional movement" (an ironic phrase if ever there was one), and not the Novus Ordo as a movement. Ok. So, the underlying "issues" of the Friars alleged by its apparent enemies in Rome who report to Pope Francis is a canonical and theological issue mainly focused on the idea that a religious order ought to conduct itself in obedience to its religious superior, who is really canonically higher than the bishop, in a sense, for that community. But with extra autonomy of the religious without much regard for the authority or their superior is hog wash --- one of their religious vows is holy obedience. That is one of the three, main points of becoming a religious in the first place: to witness to the eschatalogical realities to the world. Somehow this is offensive to the Modernists, and is being presented as not progressive. irked The Traditional Mass was just another rub in the wrong direction for these guys.

Look at the Society of the Most Holy Trinity and Father Corapi: They gave Father too much rope, and look what happened? Eventually, he became disobedient anyway, precisely because there was hardly any effectively executed accountability and constraints in his life style, living arrangements, recreation, time, etc. I'm sure he had "meetings" with his superiors, but that's not what I'm taking about here.
Feb 13th 2014 new
Sad stuff, Lynea, in regard to Fr. Corapi (and his offense in the face of belonging to the Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity).

Nice to see you here again.
Feb 13th 2014 new
(quote) Lynea-297530 said: It has seemed to me that the reason the Pope chose what he did was maybe the same reaction of the just judge in the Bible, when one woman stole another woman's baby and the other wouldn't return the baby. The judge suggested to cut the baby in half, well, this is sort of what has been done. I think it was to test obedience. However, Fr. Manelli has always been obedient. For some reason, there are factions that see the traditional Mass as part of a "traditional movement" (an ironic phrase if ever there was one), and not the Novus Ordo as a movement. Ok. So, the underlying "issues" of the Friars alleged by its apparent enemies in Rome who report to Pope Francis is a canonical and theological issue mainly focused on the idea that a religious order ought to conduct itself in obedience to its religious superior, who is really canonically higher than the bishop, in a sense, for that community. But with extra autonomy of the religious without much regard for the authority or their superior is hog wash --- one of their religious vows is holy obedience. That is one of the three, main points of becoming a religious in the first place: to witness to the eschatalogical realities to the world. Somehow this is offensive to the Modernists, and is being presented as not progressive. The Traditional Mass was just another rub in the wrong direction for these guys.

Look at the Society of the Most Holy Trinity and Father Corapi: They gave Father too much rope, and look what happened? Eventually, he became disobedient anyway, precisely because there was hardly any effectively executed accountability and constraints in his life style, living arrangements, recreation, time, etc. I'm sure he had "meetings" with his superiors, but that's not what I'm taking about here.
There was definitely a breakdown of religious life there, and partly because of the "star power" of Fr. Corapi (always a bad thing).

Tests of obedience do work out sometimes, as with Fr. Pavone with Priests for Life. Sometimes, as you seem to indicate, it is mainly persecution (Padre Pio being the classic case).

In this case, well, as Ronald Reagan said, "facts are stubborn things."
Feb 13th 2014 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said:
In this case, well, as Ronald Reagan said, "facts are stubborn things."
And as Ron Burgundy said, "Always report the facts, unless its too hard to find the facts, and then you make things up."

OK. That had nothing to do with this conversation, but I heard it recently found it rather amusing.
cool
Feb 13th 2014 new
(quote) Lynea-297530 said: And as Ron Burgundy said, "Always report the facts, unless its too hard to find the facts, and then you make things up."

OK. That had nothing to do with this conversation, but I heard it recently found it rather amusing.
Given recent statements, it has relevance as well.
Feb 14th 2014 new
What I glean from this discussion is that I shouldn't get my hopes up too much with respect to the future of the Extraordinary Form.

I've learned the hard way that one of the most important factors in whether the EF is celebrated is not whether the people of a diocese desire that it be celebrated or whether there are priests who are willing to celebrate it, but rather the orientation of the bishop of that diocese. Hence, the appointment of bishops who have have some understanding of the danger of the hermeneutic of rupture is of the utmost importance. That Cardinal Burke was removed from the Congregation for Bishops and replaced with Cardinal Wuerl I believe warrants a fairly bleak outlook on this point. It is sad that so far there have been no posts here that would offer any hope on this.

Interesting discussion, nonetheless.
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