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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

They are turning people of faith into religious refugees. ... Is this the society that we want to live in where people of faith are driven out of business?

- Nicolle Martin, attorney, Alliance Defending Freedom

tinyurl.com
Jun 3rd new
So very sad, it seems that the "gays" want total acceptance even if they hurt others in the process. This is the start of white martyrdom in the workplace and elsewhere-the Catholic Church next, I sincerely believe most gay people are nice but a certain militant few what their way or no way. God bless this man and his sincere ability to serve Jesus Christ. St. Thomas More pray for us!
Jun 3rd new
(quote) Peter-449116 said: They are turning people of faith into religious refugees. ... Is this the society that we want to live in where people of faith are driven out of business?

- Nicolle Martin, attorney, Alliance Defending Freedom

http://tinyurl.com/p6flyyd

matthew 7;1

1"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.




Jun 3rd new
You understand that if 99 bakers in town express willingness to bake such a cake, and the 100th does not, the activists will insist on commissioning the cake from the 100th baker, in order to impress upon him his powerlessness (and by extension, that of anyone else who is so rash as to resist the prevailing orthodoxy).
Jun 3rd new
I read through the entire article plus all the comments pertaining to the report.
The one I agreed with most was
Supreme Court of US affirmed that you can not deny service for race, gender, old-age, etc. There is no unilateral right to deny service. You can require shoes (health laws), coat & tie (exclusive clubs-fancy restaurants) because they have not been excluded.

Like you, i do feel sorry for the baker for being forced to bake cakes for gays. i think he did the right thing by stopping to bake cakes and open his mail order business to protect his views on his faith.
my personal views came to play when i saw this article having two cousins who are open about being gay. one married and one not. plus, I've worked with gays who are now my closest friends. I don't disgard people when they don't fit into society. I let God do all my judging for me.
Great article, thanks for sharing, this one should be a good one for discussion.
Jun 4th new
You mean, like the one flying servant of Beelzebub that persists in buzzing around you at a wedding banquet when it could be buzzing around any number of other guests?
Jun 4th new
(quote) Peter-449116 said: They are turning people of faith into religious refugees. ... Is this the society that we want to live in where people of faith are driven out of business?

- Nicolle Martin, attorney, Alliance Defending Freedom

The real problem is not (Christian or Muslim or Jewish or Buddhist or ....) Faith against Atheism but what you mean by 'faith'. Anyone with a little bit of creativity can create a 'faith'. Joseph Smith or L Ron Hubbard are examples. If the two gay men had complained that the baker was discriminating against their religious civil rights rather than against their secular civil rights, would this have become a 'Faith' vs 'faith' dispute? Could the baker have refused to bake a wedding cake bearing the wording "There is One God and Muhammad is His Prophet" (in English or Arabic)?


Does the wall between state and church prevent the state from deciding which religions are legitimate expressions of belief in the supernatural and which are not? It probably allows the state a restricted privilege to investigate whether a belief is 'conscientious' for the purposes of, say, military service. But it's possible that the baker would still have been penalised for violating the men's 'rights', and Nicolle Martin, attorney, Alliance Defending Freedom, might have been unable to enter the picture because, to the blindfolded impartiality of the US Constitution, the freedom of religious belief and expression of one citizen is surely no more superior or inferior to those of another.


tinyurl.com

Jun 4th new
As a business owner I empathize with the gentleman, However,My logic on this is that he was not facilitating or shall we say empowering the couple in their wedding, Although I can fully understand the displeasure on his part of baking the cake,It does not,Imho, represent any moral culpability by baking the cake.I do not find it analogous to a pharmacist being required against his moral objection dispensing birth control, or assisting in abortion.


I have worked with, and have customers that are openly gay. I do not refuse to service their products.You can hate the sin but not the sinner.
Jun 4th new
(quote) Charles-976166 said: As a business owner I empathize with the gentleman, However,My logic on this is that he was not facilitating or shall we say empowering the couple in their wedding, Although I can fully understand the displeasure on his part of baking the cake,It does not,Imho, represent any moral culpability by baking the cake.I do not find it analogous to a pharmacist being required against his moral objection dispensing birth control, or assisting in abortion.


I have worked with, and have customers that are openly gay. I do not refuse to service their products.You can hate the sin but not the sinner.
From what I have read about it, I think he would be OK baking a cake for their birthday, just not their "wedding."
Jun 4th new
(quote) Charles-976166 said: As a business owner I empathize with the gentleman, However,My logic on this is that he was not facilitating or shall we say empowering the couple in their wedding, Although I can fully understand the displeasure on his part of baking the cake,It does not,Imho, represent any moral culpability by baking the cake.I do not find it analogous to a pharmacist being required against his moral objection dispensing birth control, or assisting in abortion.


I have worked with, and have customers that are openly gay. I do not refuse to service their products.You can hate the sin but not the sinner.
I agree with you, Charles. If a customer pays a baker for a cake, that is a business transaction and does not constitute support of gay marriage. Support would be donating a cake, not selling one.
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