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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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I was recently accused of "[speaking] with the arrogance of youth" with respect to my defense of Magisterial teaching on contraception. However, my points were not challenged. I encounter that sort of thing a lot these days. Insult, followed by dismissal.

I wanted to deploy my ready rejoinder that:

  1. As flattered as I am that this teaching in all its prescience could be attributed to my meager intellect, I seem to recall this teaching being promulgated in an encyclical (Humanae Vitae) by an by a certain elderly Pope Paul VI just 10 short years before his death
  2. No Catholic, man or woman should be intimidated or cowed into silence on this great moral issue of our time. As I've asserted previously in other threads in the Catholic match fora, artificial contraception is not solely an issue of "women's health" (whatever that is). I know plenty of men who seem to be as married to artificial contraceptives (like condoms and spermicides) as feminists allege that women are.
  3. Men especially needn't be intimidated by fraudulent accusations of sexism or misogyny simply for daring to raise this topic, so, I hope by introducing it here I can move us one step closer to openness and dialog
...but alas that thread was closed. So let's have that discussion here!
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Jun 14th 2014 new
(quote) Devan-877827 said:

I was recently accused of "[speaking] with the arrogance of youth" with respect to my defense of Magisterial teaching on contraception. However, my points were not challenged. I encounter that sort of thing a lot these days. Insult, followed by dismissal.

I wanted to deploy my ready rejoinder that:

As flattered as I am that this teaching in all its prescience could be attributed to my meager intellect, I seem to recall this teaching being promulgated in an encyclical (Humanae Vitae) by an by a certain elderly Pope Paul VI just 10 short years before his death No Catholic, man or woman should be intimidated or cowed into silence on this great moral issue of our time. As I've asserted previously in other threads in the Catholic match fora, artificial contraception is not solely an issue of "women's health" (whatever that is). I know plenty of men who seem to be as married to artificial contraceptives (like condoms and spermicides) as feminists allege that women are. Men especially needn't be intimidated by fraudulent accusations of sexism or misogyny simply for daring to raise this topic, so, I hope by introducing it here I can move us one step closer to openness and dialog...but alas that thread was closed. So let's have that discussion here!
Aside from the moral aspects of contraception, I recently heard an explanation I found to be very moving. "I love you and I want to be intimate with you but there is a part of you I hate; I want you to poison that part. I do not like the fact you can become a mother from our intimacy. The baby who could result from us is an enemy of our's. Your baby, my baby, half you and half me, we do not want." sad
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Jun 14th 2014 new
(quote) Devan-877827 said:

I was recently accused of "[speaking] with the arrogance of youth" with respect to my defense of Magisterial teaching on contraception. However, my points were not challenged. I encounter that sort of thing a lot these days. Insult, followed by dismissal.

I wanted to deploy my ready rejoinder that:

As flattered as I am that this teaching in all its prescience could be attributed to my meager intellect, I seem to recall this teaching being promulgated in an encyclical (Humanae Vitae) by an by a certain elderly Pope Paul VI just 10 short years before his death No Catholic, man or woman should be intimidated or cowed into silence on this great moral issue of our time. As I've asserted previously in other threads in the Catholic match fora, artificial contraception is not solely an issue of "women's health" (whatever that is). I know plenty of men who seem to be as married to artificial contraceptives (like condoms and spermicides) as feminists allege that women are. Men especially needn't be intimidated by fraudulent accusations of sexism or misogyny simply for daring to raise this topic, so, I hope by introducing it here I can move us one step closer to openness and dialog...but alas that thread was closed. So let's have that discussion here!
Devan - it is not arrogance of youth to point out an objective truth. It is the arrogance of elitism to place degrees earned, positions held or status/age in the way of decent and honest discussion upon an objective truth.

For some reason, many women around the age of the one who castigated you cry "mercy" when it comes to bearing undesired pregnancies by those women who fornicate and become pregnant, as if it is some mercy to rid a woman of the precious gift God has deigned to give her in her children, or even to pervert the nature of the act by which she fornicates by attempting to prevent pregnancy and injuring her even worse intellectually on the meaning of the act. All I can conclude is that there is a failure of communication somewhere...

I believe you wrote well and concisely in your original response to her.
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Jun 14th 2014 new
(quote) Meg-920823 said: Aside from the moral aspects of contraception, I recently heard an explanation I found to be very moving. "I love you and I want to be intimate with you but there is a part of you I hate; I want you to poison that part. I do not like the fact you can become a mother from our intimacy. The baby who could result from us is an enemy of our's. Your baby, my baby, half you and half me, we do not want."
Yes, it's unhealthy to demonize a healthy part of a person: his/her fertility. Thanks for this exposition, Meg.
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Jun 14th 2014 new
(quote) Devan-877827 said:

I was recently accused of "[speaking] with the arrogance of youth" with respect to my defense of Magisterial teaching on contraception. However, my points were not challenged. I encounter that sort of thing a lot these days. Insult, followed by dismissal.

I wanted to deploy my ready rejoinder that:

As flattered as I am that this teaching in all its prescience could be attributed to my meager intellect, I seem to recall this teaching being promulgated in an encyclical (Humanae Vitae) by an by a certain elderly Pope Paul VI just 10 short years before his death No Catholic, man or woman should be intimidated or cowed into silence on this great moral issue of our time. As I've asserted previously in other threads in the Catholic match fora, artificial contraception is not solely an issue of "women's health" (whatever that is). I know plenty of men who seem to be as married to artificial contraceptives (like condoms and spermicides) as feminists allege that women are. Men especially needn't be intimidated by fraudulent accusations of sexism or misogyny simply for daring to raise this topic, so, I hope by introducing it here I can move us one step closer to openness and dialog...but alas that thread was closed. So let's have that discussion here!
What is wrong with contraception? I've said before that if my girls are sexually active, I don't want them getting pregnant. How do we accomplish that? No brainer for me.
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Jun 14th 2014 new
(quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Devan - it is not arrogance of youth to point out an objective truth. It is the arrogance of elitism to place degrees earned, positions held or status/age in the way of decent and honest discussion upon an objective truth.

For some reason, many women around the age of the one who castigated you cry "mercy" when it comes to bearing undesired pregnancies by those women who fornicate and become pregnant, as if it is some mercy to rid a woman of the precious gift God has deigned to give her in her children, or even to pervert the nature of the act by which she fornicates by attempting to prevent pregnancy and injuring her even worse intellectually on the meaning of the act. All I can conclude is that there is a failure of communication somewhere...

I believe you wrote well and concisely in your original response to her.
Not concisely at all. Ever.
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Jun 14th 2014 new
(quote) Jim-875732 said: What is wrong with contraception? I've said before that if my girls are sexually active, I don't want them getting pregnant. How do we accomplish that? No brainer for me.
What if the contraception fails, as happens frequently?

Encouraging sex with contraception is like saying that playing with guns is safe if there are blanks instead of bullets. It's not the nature of a gun to be a plaything, and it is not the nature of sex to be a recreational activity for people who cannot be parents.
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Jun 14th 2014 new
(quote) Jim-875732 said: Not concisely at all. Ever.
I quote Devan here:

"I'd imagine that 99.9 percent of Catholics knowingly tell lies from time to time, and I don't hear you saying the Catholic Church should revise its teaching on lying. Most Americans probably supported segregation at one point in time. Why is there always this argument that sheer weight of numbers confers legitimacy on something that is morally wrong?

"This argument compartmentalizes morality into whatever prevents homicide is somehow justified, but there are plenty of dimensions of morality that are as essential to human life as the Fifth Commandment. If the Church said that all inner city baby mamas should be sterilized (which is actually what many hospitals tried to do in the 60s and 70s), well it's very plausible that you'd decrease out of wedlock abortions but you cannot use evil that good may come of it.

"I think your support of this idea likely stems from a lack of understanding of the social evils which artificial contraception begets, such as the spread of certain diseases like HPV, or the increase in government coercion, and the attendant recession of individual liberties."

This is a very concise exposition of the conformity of Devan's mind.

Why, also, in regard to your girls would you want to frustrate the natural end of the marriage act (should they choose to fornicate)? That seems very sad that you'd want to pervert them doubly by supporting the fornication and preventing the natural end of the act.



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Jun 14th 2014 new
Don't you just love when folks wield inexperience against you? As if wisdom has age preference. Or rather, as if God delegates it according to an age number.
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Jun 14th 2014 new
(quote) Sara-979131 said: Don't you just love when folks wield inexperience against you? As if wisdom has age preference. Or rather, as if God delegates it according to an age number.
Ha...! Your very statement makes me think of St. Thomas Aquinas, who at five years of age was going around asking the question, "What is God?" Most grown adults who I know do not even have the wisdom to ask that same question.
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