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Can Non Catholics be saved?

Jun 19th 2014 new
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DEAN OF THEOLOGY AT ST. ANSELM SAYS THERE ARE NO KNOWN EXCEPTIONS TO THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS

Rev. Fr.P. Stefano Visintin OSB, Dean of the Faculty of Theology at the Pontifical University St.Anselm, Rome says all non Catholics need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation and there are no known exceptions.This is the teaching of the Catholic Church.
The baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are possibilities, he said, but are not known exceptions to the traditional teaching on salvation.
Prof. Visintin was speaking with me yesterday (Oct.15,2013) at the university where I had gone to seek information on Subiaco, the Benedictine retreat center near Rome.
Fr.Stefano who has been appointed for the second term as the Dean of Theology affirmed the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and said that none of us know of any case this year saved outside the church.
I asked him again if he was saying all Jews, Muslims and other non Catholics in Rome and elsewhere need to enter the Church for salvation. He replied all who know about Jesus and the Church need to enter."All who know?" and not 'all in general'I needed to clarify?.Since we don't know who knows or does not know and will be saved . This is known only to God.
He clarified that all with no exception in the present times need to convert visibly into the Church for salvation.
I asked him if this is what is being taught at the university.He answered in the affirmative.
The Dean of Theology was presenting traditional Benedictine theology and spirituality and throwing light on a controversial theological issue in Catholic circles these days.Professors of theology at pontifical universities in Rome claim there are known exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
This factual error of the dead-saved being visible to us is being made at the Angelicum University, Rome by Fr. Robert Christian O.P . This is also tyhe factual error of a professor of ecclesiology, at the Urbaniana University, Rome by Sandra Mazzoloni. It is also there in the two Departments, of Missiology and Theology of Religions, at the Gregorian University.It would seem they can see ghosts in parks and streets here! At the Urbaniana University Sandra Mazzollini calls this ' a development of doctrine ' , according to the annual Urbaniana Handbook of university courses.
None of them can name any non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance etc yet even at the Society of St. Pius X(SSPX) seminary in Econe, Switzerland this error is made by Fr. Jean Marie Gleize. The traditionalist professor of ecclesiology refers to an exceptional way of salvation(via eccezionale) when we don't know of any exceptions.
Fr.Visintin contradicts these professors of theology and also the International Theological Commission, Vatican(ITC). The ITC indicates on its website that there are known exceptions to the the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as interpreted by Fr.Leonard Feeney.
This Benedictine priest is also correcting the general understanding of Vatican Council II, interpreted with irrational Cushingism. He is saying indirectly, that Vatican Council II does not contradict the traditional teaching on other religions and Christian communities and churches. The 'old ecclesiology' has not changed since there are no known exceptions to the dogma on exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.This is a breakthrough for reconciliation with the sedevacantists (CMRI, MHFM and others) who can now accept a traditional Vatican Council II without the premise of being able to see the dead who are visible exceptions to traditional teaching.It has also created a new opportunity for Vatican-SSPX reconciliation talks.
Meeting Fr.Visintin was a welcome exprience.It seemed like a gift for me from my favourite saint, on her feast day, Teresa of Avila.
-Lionel Andrades
Subprior:
P. Stefano Visintin, O.S.B.
vicepriore@santanselmo.org
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Jun 19th 2014 new
catholicism.org

Outside the Church there is no Salvation

Outside the Church there is no Salvation (Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus)

Outside the Church there is no salvation (extra ecclesiam nulla salus) is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the Popes defined it:

  • There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved. (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)
  • We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)
  • The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church. (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
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Jun 19th 2014 new
I don't have an objective basis for denying the doctrine, but I would be lying if I said I had a strong subjective conviction that, say, C.S.Lewis and N.T. Wright are bound for the flames which God has prepared for the Devil and his angels.
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Jun 19th 2014 new
Most people reply with subjective ,or emotional response to this Dogma.Some,even Canonize "good" Non Catholics.Somein this Forum even say they know many non beliveing Catholics who are better than believeing Catholics (in their opinion,as if they can read someones heart,or soul).
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Jun 19th 2014 new
(quote) Paul-1049651 said: I don't have an objective basis for denying the doctrine, but I would be lying if I said I had a strong subjective conviction that, say, C.S.Lewis and N.T. Wright are bound for the flames which God has prepared for the Devil and his angels.
Paul, your response shows a misunderstanding of the doctrine. It is true that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. Keep in mind, the doctrine is not "No Protestants will get to Heaven." They just will not be Protestant when they get there. They will not get to Heaven because of their Protestantism. They might get to Heaven in spite of it, because of what it has retained from the Catholic Church, like a valid Baptism. All people who are Baptised, for example, or have Baptism of desire, are members of the Body of Christ to a certain degree.
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Jun 19th 2014 new
Although I am in no way able to judge the degree of culpability of any individual, dependent upon the way in which they were raised, information to which they had never been exposed, fears, bias and misrepresentation instilled since youth, we must remember Christ said, "Seek and ye shall find." His Church is a Visible Church, and that means for the most part she is Visible to all who can reason. Otherwise God would be an unfair God. There is such a thing as culpable, comfortable ignorance, or an inability to recognize the light of Truth because conscience has been deadened by habitual mortal sin.

I have been involved in apologetics for quite a long time, and through logic and reason, no other ism makes sense. Most people can pick up a basic apologetics or history book, flip through it, and discern. It is a no brainer that God did not pass out bibles - He built a living, teaching Church and literally breathed His Authority into it. It always comes down to a free will choice. Truth is there, revealed by God, but comfortable ignorance, way of life, or self deception through private interpretation tempts. It is fitting that the one religion revealed by God would have the big banner "submission" emblazoned across the gate.

By the way, some believe that C S Lewis converted to Catholicism right before he died.
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Jun 19th 2014 new

Of course they can.

I know many non-Catholics who are better people than many of us Catholics, and I have no doubt at all that they would be with God were they to die now. I am sure God does not judge by doctrine but rather by the heart and the mind. He will judge, as Christ taught us, by our love.

In addition, I think that the concept that the Creator of all Creation would reject people from Salvation because of doctrine is both a silly concept and also a dangerous one: one that leads to war, murder, terrorism, and jihad. What we are witnessing in the Middle East is the natural result of such an opinion.

I would abjure my fellow Catholics form spewing such venom, such vile, putrid hatred, such sticky, poisonous evil as is being purveyed here and in several other strings in this soon to be irrelevant website. Yuck! This string disgusts me, and the attitude evacuated forth by those who espouse it has finally got the better of me. If that is your version of Christianity, you may have it. crazy




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Jun 19th 2014 new
(quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Of course they can.

I know many non-Catholics who are better people than many of us Catholics, and I have no doubt at all that they would be with God were they to die now. I am sure God does not judge by doctrine but rather by the heart and the mind. He will judge, as Christ taught us, by our love.

In addition, I think that the concept that the Creator of all Creation would reject people from Salvation because of doctrine is both a silly concept and also a dangerous one: one that leads to war, murder, terrorism, and jihad. What we are witnessing in the Middle East is the natural result of such an opinion.

I would abjure my fellow Catholics form spewing such venom, such vile, putrid hatred, such sticky, poisonous evil as is being purveyed here and in several other strings in this soon to be irrelevant website. Yuck! This string disgusts me, and the attitude evacuated forth by those who espouse it has finally got the better of me. If that is your version of Christianity, you may have it.




This is Defide,Catholic Dogma.So you reject it,because of your emotion.God will be the judge.Objectively one must enter the narrow gate(the Catholic Church)and accept the revealed truth.You cannot Canonize anyone ,nor can you say that you know for sure there are Non Catholics who are better than Catholics.Ho w do you know! Answer is you don't.
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Jun 20th 2014 new
(quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Of course they can.

I know many non-Catholics who are better people than many of us Catholics, and I have no doubt at all that they would be with God were they to die now. I am sure God does not judge by doctrine but rather by the heart and the mind. He will judge, as Christ taught us, by our love.

In addition, I think that the concept that the Creator of all Creation would reject people from Salvation because of doctrine is both a silly concept and also a dangerous one: one that leads to war, murder, terrorism, and jihad. What we are witnessing in the Middle East is the natural result of such an opinion.

I would abjure my fellow Catholics form spewing such venom, such vile, putrid hatred, such sticky, poisonous evil as is being purveyed here and in several other strings in this soon to be irrelevant website. Yuck! This string disgusts me, and the attitude evacuated forth by those who espouse it has finally got the better of me. If that is your version of Christianity, you may have it.




Your courage, Gerald, in both standing up for - and demonstrating - true Christianity is appreciated. And you are right, if the extreme right fringe dominates the forums - this will become an irrelevant site.

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Jun 20th 2014 new
(quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Of course they can.

I know many non-Catholics who are better people than many of us Catholics, and I have no doubt at all that they would be with God were they to die now. I am sure God does not judge by doctrine but rather by the heart and the mind. He will judge, as Christ taught us, by our love.

In addition, I think that the concept that the Creator of all Creation would reject people from Salvation because of doctrine is both a silly concept and also a dangerous one: one that leads to war, murder, terrorism, and jihad. What we are witnessing in the Middle East is the natural result of such an opinion.

I would abjure my fellow Catholics form spewing such venom, such vile, putrid hatred, such sticky, poisonous evil as is being purveyed here and in several other strings in this soon to be irrelevant website. Yuck! This string disgusts me, and the attitude evacuated forth by those who espouse it has finally got the better of me. If that is your version of Christianity, you may have it.




Gerald, before you go, please answer one question. Are you aware that the word "Doctrine" used in the Catholic sense, just means "Truth"? The Doctrines of the Catholic Church are the things in it from Christ, not man, the Truths that He entrusted the Church to preserve in His Name. They are why the Church exists, the reason Christ instituted His Church in the first place. So please reread what you just wrote substituting the word Truth where you have put "doctrine" or, one of those very Truths, like, "Christ dying on the cross for our sins" or "Justice and Mercy", see what kind of philosophy you're left with. It won't be Christ's version of Christianity, only your own. Good luck with that one!
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