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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

By Joseph Wilhelm, D.D., PHD. And Thomas B. Scannell, D.D. (based on Rev. Matthias Scheebens Dogmatik)

www.faithfulanswers.com
Aug 4th new
I imagine that there must be a way of explaining the Rule which is less repellent than this.

First there's the prose itself, which reads as if generated by a robot -- a style at the furthest possible remove from that of Jesus, Paul, Augustine, Jerome, Pascal - need I go on? It is just inhuman, bloodless, dead prose.

Next, I'm afraid it really does read like something out of the manifesto of a totalitarian state: "Hence there exists in the Church, side by side with and completing the Rule of Faith, a Rule of Theological Thought or Religious Conviction, to which every Catholic must submit internally as well as externally". Again, it may just be a matter of style, but the phrase that sprang into my mind was, "The Gospel According to Darth Vader".

Finally, it begs an urgent practical question: even assuming that there are rules (apart, I mean, from anything that is already explicit in Scripture or self-evident by the exercise of natural reason) 'to which every Catholic must submit internally as well as externally', how is the individual Catholic to arrive at a sincere and heartfelt state of submission and acceptance if he does not naturally and spontaneously feel it? That's surely the crux of the difficulty. And in this admittedly brief excerpt, the authors not only do nothing to suggest an answer, they don't even appear to recognize that there might be a difficulty.

Another way of coming at this; can you imagine reading such a passage to someone who was hesitating about whether or not to become a Catholic? I can't imagine anything that would be more likely to send such a person screaming for the exits.
Aug 4th new
I agree it is rather stiff.Not for newbies.
Aug 4th new
(quote) Paul-1049651 said: I imagine that there must be a way of explaining the Rule which is less repellent than this.

First there's the prose itself, which reads as if generated by a robot -- a style at the furthest possible remove from that of Jesus, Paul, Augustine, Jerome, Pascal - need I go on? It is just inhuman, bloodless, dead prose.

Next, I'm afraid it really does read like something out of the manifesto of a totalitarian state: "Hence there exists in the Church, side by side with and completing the Rule of Faith, a Rule of Theological Thought or Religious Conviction, to which every Catholic must submit internally as well as externally". Again, it may just be a matter of style, but the phrase that sprang into my mind was, "The Gospel According to Darth Vader".

Finally, it begs an urgent practical question: even assuming that there are rules (apart, I mean, from anything that is already explicit in Scripture or self-evident by the exercise of natural reason) 'to which every Catholic must submit internally as well as externally', how is the individual Catholic to arrive at a sincere and heartfelt state of submission and acceptance if he does not naturally and spontaneously feel it? That's surely the crux of the difficulty. And in this admittedly brief excerpt, the authors not only do nothing to suggest an answer, they don't even appear to recognize that there might be a difficulty.

Another way of coming at this; can you imagine reading such a passage to someone who was hesitating about whether or not to become a Catholic? I can't imagine anything that would be more likely to send such a person screaming for the exits.
I agree with your comments, Paul. It is quite evident the content was written in 1906 and is an academic work, perhaps a manual for priests or instructors, rather than an apologetics work.

The article discusses the different degrees of certitude for Church teachings and the assent required for each, but does not identify which teachings fall into each category. The following document may be helpful in this regard:

catholocity.net


Aug 4th new
So you're saying it's not a real page turner then?
Aug 4th new
(quote) Virginia-182942 said: So you're saying it's not a real page turner then?
The document is fairly short (just over two printed pages, with a large image) and should be quite interesting for those intent on learning the faith as taught by the Church rather than justifying their own version of the faith. Granted, it does leave some questions unanswered, but this is a problem with an obvious solution.

Aug 4th new
(quote) Paul-1049651 said: I imagine that there must be a way of explaining the Rule which is less repellent than this.

First there's the prose itself, which reads as if generated by a robot -- a style at the furthest possible remove from that of Jesus, Paul, Augustine, Jerome, Pascal - need I go on? It is just inhuman, bloodless, dead prose.

Next, I'm afraid it really does read like something out of the manifesto of a totalitarian state: "Hence there exists in the Church, side by side with and completing the Rule of Faith, a Rule of Theological Thought or Religious Conviction, to which every Catholic must submit internally as well as externally". Again, it may just be a matter of style, but the phrase that sprang into my mind was, "The Gospel According to Darth Vader".

Finally, it begs an urgent practical question: even assuming that there are rules (apart, I mean, from anything that is already explicit in Scripture or self-evident by the exercise of natural reason) 'to which every Catholic must submit internally as well as externally', how is the individual Catholic to arrive at a sincere and heartfelt state of submission and acceptance if he does not naturally and spontaneously feel it? That's surely the crux of the difficulty. And in this admittedly brief excerpt, the authors not only do nothing to suggest an answer, they don't even appear to recognize that there might be a difficulty.

Another way of coming at this; can you imagine reading such a passage to someone who was hesitating about whether or not to become a Catholic? I can't imagine anything that would be more likely to send such a person screaming for the exits.
I agree Paul, Another example of theology written by an arcane academician.
Aug 4th new
(quote) Virginia-182942 said: So you're saying it's not a real page turner then?
For readability, it could only be compared with a page of income-tax legislation.
Aug 4th new
(quote) Charles-976166 said: I agree Paul, Another example of theology written by an arcane academician.
Academic worksa re generally written to be read by those educated at an advanced level in the field. This particular work was written 100+ years ago, adding to the unnatural perception experienced by many modern readers.

The problem is not with the document itself or the authors, but rather with its suitability for a particular purpose: being used as-is to educate laity, in particular those who either don't want to be educated or who expect the material to be pre-digested for them rather than exerting any intellectual effort to meet the material.

Aug 4th new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: Academic worksa re generally written to be read by those educated at an advanced level in the field. This particular work was written 100+ years ago, adding to the unnatural perception experienced by many modern readers.

The problem is not with the document itself or the authors, but rather with its suitability for a particular purpose: being used as-is to educate laity, in particular those who either don't want to be educated or who expect the material to be pre-digested for them rather than exerting any intellectual effort to meet the material.

I have read works of Plato, Socrates,and Aristotle, But this is extremely arcane.
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