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I haven't paid a great deal of attention to this controversy I must admit. Many of you have posted on the subject, so I hope I'm not covering old ground. I fear a devastating schism in the Church.

tinyurl.com
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Aug 13th new
(quote) Peter-449116 said: I haven't paid a great deal of attention to this controversy I must admit. Many of you have posted on the subject, so I hope I'm not covering old ground. I fear a devastating schism in the Church.

http://tinyurl.com/myo85rj
I am wary of secular news reports about the Church.
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Aug 13th new
(quote) Charles-976166 said: I am wary of secular news reports about the Church.
Good point Charles, as I mentioned I know very little about the subject. I hope this was an exaggeration.
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Aug 13th new
(quote) Peter-449116 said: I haven't paid a great deal of attention to this controversy I must admit. Many of you have posted on the subject, so I hope I'm not covering old ground. I fear a devastating schism in the Church.

http://tinyurl.com/myo85rj
The main problem with the article is that it perpetuates several outright lies.

For example, despite allowing for a greater usage of the Tridentine rite, Summorum did not loosen all restraints. In fact, within the permitted expansion its celebration was still restricted. It was not as broad a loosening as the self-styled traditionalists like to believe.

Another misleading statement is the one about Pope Benedict, in Summorum, stated that he wanted the Novus to benefit from the Tirdentine form. In fact what he did say is that both Formns should benefit FROM EACH OTHER.

The article also perpetuates another outright lie. It categorically states that in Pope Francis' old diocese, Buenos Aires, he did not allow the Extraordinary form of the Mass to be celebrated. At the time when this canard was first proclaimed in these forums by the usual suspects, a member from that Diocese informed us that just tye opposite was true.

The Tridentine form was never suppressed. It was superseded but not suppressed. So it is false for the writer to state that Pope St. John Paul II legalized it. What he did do was law down the rules, very restrictive, under which its celebration could and should occur.

There is no need to list all the writer's outright lies or misleading statements.

At the end of the silly article, the writer adds the sentiment that he hopes he is wrong. To put it bluntly, he is.
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Aug 14th new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: The main problem with the article is that it perpetuates several outright lies.

For example, despite allowing for a greater usage of the Tridentine rite, Summorum did not loosen all restraints. In fact, within the permitted expansion its celebration was still restricted. It was not as broad a loosening as the self-styled traditionalists like to believe.

Another misleading statement is the one about Pope Benedict, in Summorum, stated that he wanted the Novus to benefit from the Tirdentine form. In fact what he did say is that both Formns should benefit FROM EACH OTHER.

The article also perpetuates another outright lie. It categorically states that in Pope Francis' old diocese, Buenos Aires, he did not allow the Extraordinary form of the Mass to be celebrated. At the time when this canard was first proclaimed in these forums by the usual suspects, a member from that Diocese informed us that just tye opposite was true.

The Tridentine form was never suppressed. It was superseded but not suppressed. So it is false for the writer to state that Pope St. John Paul II legalized it. What he did do was law down the rules, very restrictive, under which its celebration could and should occur.

There is no need to list all the writer's outright lies or misleading statements.

At the end of the silly article, the writer adds the sentiment that he hopes he is wrong. To put it bluntly, he is.
"The Tridentine form was never suppressed."???????? If anything is a lie it's this. OF COURSE it was suppressed. For decades, any priest desiring to stick to the old form was shown the door. Even today, most bishops will not allow their priests to celibrate the latin mass even when the people want it. There is s huge problem in the Church today, and it's because catholic liberals in it want the Church to become more and more "protestant and secular friendly".
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Aug 14th new
For the most part it was suppressed, though there were masses still said that way here and there, and some indults given, the most famous one being the "Agatha Christe" indult in England.

On the whole, however, you are correct. If it wasn't entirely suppressed, which Pope Benedict did say they could not do, it certainly wasn't for lack of trying.

The fear now is that the present Pontiff will, as in the case of the FFI, reinterpret Summorum Pontificum to bludgeon the very movement it was written to protect. Some of the statements by the head of the Congregation for Religious Life indicate this.

However, even without the flap over Holy Angels in NYC, there is enough to the "Francis Effect" to make even "conservative" Catholics like Paul quake. The Fox News story is quite accurate, but another journalist wonders why the journalistic gold in Francis' recent interview in El Clarin has not been mined fully.

If you're not familiar with it, it is the one with the now famous "10 Secrets to a Happy Life," consisting of this (according to the National Catholic Reporter translation):

1. Live and let live.
2. Be giving of yourself to others.
3. Proceed calmly in life.
4. Have a healthy sense of leisure.
5. Sunday is for family.
6. Be creative with young people and find innovative ways to create dignified jobs.
7. Respect and take care of nature.
8. Stop being negative. Letting go of negative things quickly is healthy, he said.
9. The worst thing of all is religious proselytism, which paralyzes.
10. Work for peace. We are living in a time of many wars, he said. The call for peace must be shouted.

Here is the article, but here is the money quote if you want to be quick:

tinyurl.com

Perhaps El Clarn is following in this line of reporting. Francis speaks in clichs because that is what El Clarn wants its readers to hear. Perhaps the outlet for the interview, a Sunday color supplement, dictated what was highlighted by the interviewer. El Clarn has released a three minute clip of the 77 minute videotaped interview. A full transcript of the conversation has not been released either, making it impossible to check what has been reported with what was said.

For a religion reporter an individual knowledgeable about the doctrines of the Catholic Church and the events of recent years the popes words are more than worldy and banal. They question Catholic doctrine. Is the sentiment live and let live or the denunciation of proselytizing in line with the catechism of the church?
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Aug 15th new
(quote) Sergio-566645 said: "The Tridentine form was never suppressed."???????? If anything is a lie it's this. OF COURSE it was suppressed. For decades, any priest desiring to stick to the old form was shown the door. Even today, most bishops will not allow their priests to celibrate the latin mass even when the people want it. There is s huge problem in the Church today, and it's because catholic liberals in it want the Church to become more and more "protestant and secular friendly".
Sorry Sergio, the Extraordinary Form of the Mass was not suppressed. It was superseded.

It is true that many BIshops did not allow it to be celebrated in their Diocese, which is their right as Bishop. They are the sole and final arbiters of how the Mass is publicly celebrated in their Dioceses. And that is still true, within the norms Benedict laid down in Summorum.

Within the norms of Summorum, they cannot prohibit it from being celebrated. But those norms are comparatively limited.

MOst Bishops today, have set aside parishes within their Diocese where the Extraordinary form is celebrated for the COMPARATIVELY few people who want it.

And in the total scheme of things it is a comparatively small number of the faithful. You may not beleive that, but then you only talk to those like yourself who prefer it..

Your last senternce is total, complete and utter nonsense.
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Aug 15th new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: Sorry Sergio, the Extraordinary Form of the Mass was not suppressed. It was superseded.

It is true that many BIshops did not allow it to be celebrated in their Diocese, which is their right as Bishop. They are the sole and final arbiters of how the Mass is publicly celebrated in their Dioceses. And that is still true, within the norms Benedict laid down in Summorum.

Within the norms of Summorum, they cannot prohibit it from being celebrated. But those norms are comparatively limited.

MOst Bishops today, have set aside parishes within their Diocese where the Extraordinary form is celebrated for the COMPARATIVELY few people who want it.

And in the total scheme of things it is a comparatively small number of the faithful. You may not beleive that, but then you only talk to those like yourself who prefer it..

Your last senternce is total, complete and utter nonsense.
It is true.Only a small number of people are interested in the Traditional Latin Mass.It takes more effort and attention,than the Novus Ordo.
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Aug 15th new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: Sorry Sergio, the Extraordinary Form of the Mass was not suppressed. It was superseded.

It is true that many BIshops did not allow it to be celebrated in their Diocese, which is their right as Bishop. They are the sole and final arbiters of how the Mass is publicly celebrated in their Dioceses. And that is still true, within the norms Benedict laid down in Summorum.

Within the norms of Summorum, they cannot prohibit it from being celebrated. But those norms are comparatively limited.

MOst Bishops today, have set aside parishes within their Diocese where the Extraordinary form is celebrated for the COMPARATIVELY few people who want it.

And in the total scheme of things it is a comparatively small number of the faithful. You may not beleive that, but then you only talk to those like yourself who prefer it..

Your last senternce is total, complete and utter nonsense.
You can say it was "superceded" all you want Paul, but the fact is, it was banned forcefully by progressives in the church. They didn't formally annouce it, but their every action confirmed it. The old Mass was pooh poohed by the modernist innovators who wanted, and still want, to see the Catholic Church become more and more protestant and liberal like. How explain all this hand clapping, dancing, rock music, pentecostal modes of worship, cahristmatics, "Hallelujah let's all hold hands and feel good about ourselves", etc etc. etc.? NONE OF THIS was EVER a part of Catholicism before that last Council. You are old enough to remember what it was like before, it is not the same Church.
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Aug 15th new

Yes I remember before the Council. I was a kid, early teens. I used to sit up there in Mass, alone, as my parents were not Catholics. I embraced the Catholic Faith aged 7 at First Communion, that's a whole other story though. I would not dare bag the Current wonderful Pope Francis. That is a dangerous thing to do.If you want to read how "bad" and "fake" he is you only have to read the NovusOrdoWatch.org. site. These people are not real Catholics and have not been for a long time. Pope Francis is our leader and he is to be followed blindly and with respect and love


CCR is a legitimate part of the Holy Church and is recognised by Rome. I have, 25 years ago now. attended their gatherings and found it great for contemplation and one on one time with the Lord. For me it was a growing and passing through kind of thing, although others have stayed with that form of Worship.

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