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Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Cover up is a sin

06/13/2012 new
Not in any way justifying the crime of child abuse but read the article here and see that coverup is not just the Catholic Church's problem...it is the problem of evil...the problem of mankind which began with Adam and Eve hiding themselves from God. Sin is inherent in our human nature and that's why we cover up...see how many people won't go to confession for fear of revealing their sins. So the next time your friend attacks the Church for covering up, educate them and help them to ask themselves: Would they have the courage to go to the authority to turn themselves or one of their family members in for a crime committed? Would they contact the police to ask for a ticket if they fail to stop at the stop sign? Or more basic, would they report themselves to their boss for an error made at work, no matter how small or grave? With all of this said, my main struggle is how the authority deliberately shuffle predators from parishes to parishes. www.philly.com
06/13/2012 new
Oops...this post should be moved to another forum. I reported myself to the Moderator :)
06/13/2012 new

(Quote) Khoa-813439 said: Not in any way justifying the crime of child abuse but read the article here and see that coverup is not ...
(Quote) Khoa-813439 said: Not in any way justifying the crime of child abuse but read the article here and see that coverup is not just the Catholic Church's problem...it is the problem of evil...the problem of mankind which began with Adam and Eve hiding themselves from God. Sin is inherent in our human nature and that's why we cover up...see how many people won't go to confession for fear of revealing their sins. So the next time your friend attacks the Church for covering up, educate them and help them to ask themselves: Would they have the courage to go to the authority to turn themselves or one of their family members in for a crime committed? Would they contact the police to ask for a ticket if they fail to stop at the stop sign? Or more basic, would they report themselves to their boss for an error made at work, no matter how small or grave? With all of this said, my main struggle is how the authority deliberately shuffle predators from parishes to parishes. www.philly.com
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Well when we witness these types of incidents going on in front of our own eyes then we ourselves and say nothing of it then who are we to point the finger at the church for covering these wicked acts up. If we can bring someone to justices at the risks of getting blasted for it, it is worth it. If I were to catch a relative of mine gratifying himself in such a manner you better believe I would blow the whistle on them. I have done it once on behalf of 2 small girls and was called a troublemaker for breaking the code of silence, I will go through the fire again willingly.

06/13/2012 new

I think one of the main problems is that many of the cases coming up were from the 60's. 70's and early 80's. During that time many people believed it was curable. That was when the big mental illness movement started up, people thought everything could be cured through therapy. I'm not saying that all bishops and priests believed this, but I'm betting if it was treated like that in the secular it was probably thought in the church. That's something that hasn't really been addressed in the news but my parents remember. It was considered a crime but wasn't considered as "permanent" a problem as it is now. I believe the root of the problem is having taken out the St. Michael's prayer at church. The devil spends much energy on thwarting the church. Yes, we should expect proper action on the church, but we should also be praying majorly for our priests to be holy and to defeat the devil....and not simply one 10 minute prayer everyday, but longer and with more passion and sacrifice.

06/13/2012 new

(Quote) Marissa-529206 said: I think one of the main problems is that many of the cases coming up were from the 60's. 70...
(Quote) Marissa-529206 said:

I think one of the main problems is that many of the cases coming up were from the 60's. 70's and early 80's. During that time many people believed it was curable. That was when the big mental illness movement started up, people thought everything could be cured through therapy. I'm not saying that all bishops and priests believed this, but I'm betting if it was treated like that in the secular it was probably thought in the church. That's something that hasn't really been addressed in the news but my parents remember. It was considered a crime but wasn't considered as "permanent" a problem as it is now. I believe the root of the problem is having taken out the St. Michael's prayer at church. The devil spends much energy on thwarting the church. Yes, we should expect proper action on the church, but we should also be praying majorly for our priests to be holy and to defeat the devil....and not simply one 10 minute prayer everyday, but longer and with more passion and sacrifice.

--hide--
There was a different mentality about this "way back then", and it wasn't necessarily intended as a cover-up. Viewing this via hindsight and increased understanding of the problem now leads people to a different conclusion. The knowledge that victims would be psycholigically damaged (permanently or temporarily) wasn't realized then.

What seems to be missing from the glaring headlines is that members of other professions who enaged in misconduct were transferred, not fired. Teachers were an example. They were just shuffled to a different school, or had an opportunity to work in a different school district. That seems to have been all but lost in the news.

The concept of being cured through therapy wasn't proven at that time. With advancing knowledge of psychology, we now know that a cure isn't usually going to happen.

06/13/2012 new

(Quote) Khoa-813439 said: Not in any way justifying the crime of child abuse but read the article here and see that coverup is not ...
(Quote) Khoa-813439 said: Not in any way justifying the crime of child abuse but read the article here and see that coverup is not just the Catholic Church's problem...it is the problem of evil...the problem of mankind which began with Adam and Eve hiding themselves from God. Sin is inherent in our human nature and that's why we cover up...see how many people won't go to confession for fear of revealing their sins. So the next time your friend attacks the Church for covering up, educate them and help them to ask themselves: Would they have the courage to go to the authority to turn themselves or one of their family members in for a crime committed? Would they contact the police to ask for a ticket if they fail to stop at the stop sign? Or more basic, would they report themselves to their boss for an error made at work, no matter how small or grave? With all of this said, my main struggle is how the authority deliberately shuffle predators from parishes to parishes. www.philly.com
--hide--


These pedophile networks can be incredibly powerful. I bet this network goes way beyond Penn State. Sandusky was supposedly pimping out kids from his "charity." Sandusky probably will be treated very well because he has the goods on his clients. There was a book written about a similar incident in the Mid-West back in the 1990s. Scariest book I've ever read. You wouldn't even believe the names involved...going all the way up to the upper-reaches of corporations and government. Witnesses turned dead under mysterious circumstances. There certainly is a "shadow government" in this country. Makes the scandals in the Catholic Church seem far less shocking!

06/14/2012 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: There was a different mentality about this "way back then", and it wasn't necessarily...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

There was a different mentality about this "way back then", and it wasn't necessarily intended as a cover-up. Viewing this via hindsight and increased understanding of the problem now leads people to a different conclusion. The knowledge that victims would be psycholigically damaged (permanently or temporarily) wasn't realized then.

What seems to be missing from the glaring headlines is that members of other professions who enaged in misconduct were transferred, not fired. Teachers were an example. They were just shuffled to a different school, or had an opportunity to work in a different school district. That seems to have been all but lost in the news.

The concept of being cured through therapy wasn't proven at that time. With advancing knowledge of psychology, we now know that a cure isn't usually going to happen.

--hide--


The different mentality was silence and denial, but it didn't just occur in the church, it was throughout society. I know of a girl who was molested by a family member. When she realized, several years later, what had actually happened and told a family member, she was told, "Nice families don't talk about such things. We will not discuss this again." The silence and habits of sweeping things that aren't pretty under the carpet was universal.

There were two pedophiles in our school system, well, in my elementary school area, the crossing guard and the school doctor. It went on for years. The kids ALL knew what was happening, but nothing was ever done. As much as we would like to hold this coach up as an example to take eyes off the church, we need to first be honest about how prevalent this behavior was in ALL walks of society.

No one faction is any more, or any less, culpable for the damage done to thousands of children. I would much prefer to see some money spent on helping the broken people this behavior has hurt then on the media coverage of said trials. Climbing down... soapbox

06/14/2012 new

(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said: (Quote) Ray-566531 said: There was a different mentality about this &q...
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:

Quote:
Ray-566531 said:

There was a different mentality about this "way back then", and it wasn't necessarily intended as a cover-up. Viewing this via hindsight and increased understanding of the problem now leads people to a different conclusion. The knowledge that victims would be psycholigically damaged (permanently or temporarily) wasn't realized then.

What seems to be missing from the glaring headlines is that members of other professions who enaged in misconduct were transferred, not fired. Teachers were an example. They were just shuffled to a different school, or had an opportunity to work in a different school district. That seems to have been all but lost in the news.

The concept of being cured through therapy wasn't proven at that time. With advancing knowledge of psychology, we now know that a cure isn't usually going to happen.




The different mentality was silence and denial, but it didn't just occur in the church, it was throughout society. I know of a girl who was molested by a family member. When she realized, several years later, what had actually happened and told a family member, she was told, "Nice families don't talk about such things. We will not discuss this again." The silence and habits of sweeping things that aren't pretty under the carpet was universal.

There were two pedophiles in our school system, well, in my elementary school area, the crossing guard and the school doctor. It went on for years. The kids ALL knew what was happening, but nothing was ever done. As much as we would like to hold this coach up as an example to take eyes off the church, we need to first be honest about how prevalent this behavior was in ALL walks of society.

No one faction is any more, or any less, culpable for the damage done to thousands of children. I would much prefer to see some money spent on helping the broken people this behavior has hurt then on the media coverage of said trials. Climbing down...

--hide--

Most child molestation cases are perpitrated by a direct family member or relative sad I agree with everything you are saying here. Like I said in another post I blew the whistle on a relative because 2 little girls were suffering from this abuse. If I have to do it again I will. They can live in denial, but I will not turn a blind eye to someone in my family sexually abusing children. Ilao bles the whistle on a nephew who was 12 years of age who did show the tendencies to want to sexualize little girls age 5. I turned him in because, even though he suffered the loss of his mother and was molested when he was only 4 or 5 himself, I had to be honest with myself that it was necessary in order for him to recieve the help he needed to deal with his own abuse. I also felt that it would be a sin for me to turn my eyes in another direction, which in this case would be a terrible thing to do on my part, since it would be like turning my back on him.

06/14/2012 new

(Quote) Elizabeth-114955 said: Most child molestation cases are perpitrated by a direct family member or r...
(Quote) Elizabeth-114955 said:

Most child molestation cases are perpitrated by a direct family member or relative I agree with everything you are saying here. Like I said in another post I blew the whistle on a relative because 2 little girls were suffering from this abuse. If I have to do it again I will. They can live in denial, but I will not turn a blind eye to someone in my family sexually abusing children. Ilao bles the whistle on a nephew who was 12 years of age who did show the tendencies to want to sexualize little girls age 5. I turned him in because, even though he suffered the loss of his mother and was molested when he was only 4 or 5 himself, I had to be honest with myself that it was necessary in order for him to recieve the help he needed to deal with his own abuse. I also felt that it would be a sin for me to turn my eyes in another direction, which in this case would be a terrible thing to do on my part, since it would be like turning my back on him.

--hide--
What you did is called "tough love" -- very difficult to do even when it's right.

06/14/2012 new

(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said: The different mentality was silence and denial, but it didn't just occur in the c...
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:



The different mentality was silence and denial, but it didn't just occur in the church, it was throughout society. I know of a girl who was molested by a family member. When she realized, several years later, what had actually happened and told a family member, she was told, "Nice families don't talk about such things. We will not discuss this again." The silence and habits of sweeping things that aren't pretty under the carpet was universal.

There were two pedophiles in our school system, well, in my elementary school area, the crossing guard and the school doctor. It went on for years. The kids ALL knew what was happening, but nothing was ever done. As much as we would like to hold this coach up as an example to take eyes off the church, we need to first be honest about how prevalent this behavior was in ALL walks of society.

No one faction is any more, or any less, culpable for the damage done to thousands of children. I would much prefer to see some money spent on helping the broken people this behavior has hurt then on the media coverage of said trials. Climbing down...

--hide--
You're well aware of the mentality that prevailed in the 1970's -- most of it was "hush-hush". I mentioned various professions that had some guilty culprits, and my comments were aimed at people's professions. What you say about family molestation (and worse) is true -- there was (and still is) a lot of improper inter-family behavior. Not sure what statistics would show, but I believe family situations would exceed those of any specific profession or vocation.

There were statistics that were publicized during the scandal. When referring to pedophiles by occupation, profession or vocation, the priesthood had the lowest percentage of offenders. Unfortunately, those few made the other priests and clergy look bad. The media, with its anti-Catholic stance jumped on the opportunity to degrade the entire Catholic Church. While there should have been zero incidents involving priests and clergy, the magnitude of the problem was blown out of proportion.

To my knowledge and recollection, no other occupational group has been as badly maligned. I do agree that it's unfortunate that the Church has to spend so much money in litigation, when it could have been used for the victims who are in need of help or therapy.

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