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This room is for supportive and informative discussion about divorce and/or the annulment process. All posters must have been previously divorced or annulled.

Saint Eugene De Mazenod is patron of dysfunctional families & Saint Fabiola obtained a divorce from her first husband prior to devoting her life to charitable works.
Learn More: Saint Eugene De Mazenod and Saint Fabiola

07/23/2012 new

(Quote) Sandra-471894 said: They lived together under a legal cival marriage for over 20 years. He and his first wife ne...
(Quote) Sandra-471894 said:


They lived together under a legal cival marriage for over 20 years. He and his first wife never got an annulment. Two years ago the second wife goes through the religious classes and was baptized, made her first communion, and confirmatin all in one day.

They are still under a cival marriage.

--hide--


Something is seriously wrong with this picture. I am not being ugly, but this shouldn't have been allowed. I have a good friend who is on hold for the sacraments. His wife's first marriage needs to be annulled, but he can not receive the sacraments living in sin, mortal sin - she's still married.

Sounds like a mess that someone is going to have to straighten out. I would be happy it is not me, and let it go. We're not supposed to be the morals police. You know that though. biggrin

07/24/2012 new

(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said: Something is seriously wrong with this picture. I am not being ugly, but this sh...
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:


Something is seriously wrong with this picture. I am not being ugly, but this shouldn't have been allowed. I have a good friend who is on hold for the sacraments. His wife's first marriage needs to be annulled, but he can not receive the sacraments living in sin, mortal sin - she's still married.

Sounds like a mess that someone is going to have to straighten out. I would be happy it is not me, and let it go. We're not supposed to be the morals police. You know that though.

--hide--
theheart

You are right, to me, something is wrong here. He got married a 2nd time in a civil ceremony. theheart Has not gotten an annulment from First Catholic marriage. Lived together for 20 years under civil marriage.

All this is wrong in the churches eyes, but can be confessed and corrected. But, I do not see how the 2nd civil marriage wife can go through
RCIA class and complete baptism, communion and confirmation in the church.

Thank you, for your time all, in answering. Now I feel that prayers are in order......for them......

theheart
rosary

07/24/2012 new

(Quote) Sandra-471894 said:You are right, to me, something is wrong here. He got married a 2nd time in a civil ceremony. Ha...
(Quote) Sandra-471894 said:

You are right, to me, something is wrong here. He got married a 2nd time in a civil ceremony. Has not gotten an annulment from First Catholic marriage. Lived together for 20 years under civil marriage.

All this is wrong in the churches eyes, but can be confessed and corrected. But, I do not see how the 2nd civil marriage wife can go through
RCIA class and complete baptism, communion and confirmation in the church.

Thank you, for your time all, in answering. Now I feel that prayers are in order......for them......

--hide--

A few comments:

First, consider the possibility there may be things going on you are not aware of (e.g., they are living a Josephite (celebate) marriage while an annulment is in process).

Assuming the relationship remains conjugal:

> All this is wrong in the churches eyes, but can be confessed and corrected

The situation must first be corrected, then confessed. Remember that a valid confession requires both contrition and a firm purpose of amendment, the latter of which is lacking if the situation causing the sin remains.

I see no problem with the woman going through the RCIA classes and learning more about the Faith.

I'd have to do some research to determine if the baptism is valid when administered under these circumstances. If the baptism was valid and all the sacraments were administered at the same time, the others might not be sacrileges (since the previous mortal sins were remitted by the baptism), however, I don't think it is a good idea to receive them with the intention to resume committing mortal sins.

Even if the sacraments were received validly, once the couple resumes conjugal relations, she may not validly receive the sacraments until there is an intention to resolve the mortal sins.

Is it possible the pastor is not aware of the circumstances?

07/27/2012 new

Sandra and all,

These situations really muddy the waters for everyone.

Jerry's comment proceeds with great charity toward the couple in question and that's so important! Then, there is the question of the scandal that others are being affected by. We are called to be charitable and leave judgement of a soul to God, but we are also called to recognize what is right and what is wrong.

Since we don't have all the information, we must remember that as the discussion continues. But it's completely appropriate to look at the situation and say that the actions we can see of the couple are not morally correct. It could also be that the couple has not been properly informed and are proceeding as directed, and it is actually the actions of the pastor or RCIA director that are wrong. I hate to say it, but there are plenty of church leaders that err on both sides of the moral issues.

I know some lay leaders who refuse the sacraments to the children of someone who is divorced which is completely wrong and a great travesty. I know of others, including priests, who allow people in the same situation you originally described to receive the sacraments despite their immoral circumstances.

I'm glad these discussions take place because we all need to be aware and ready to stand up for the truth, but all in complete charity.

- Lisa

07/27/2012 new

I'm divorced but living chastely (very chastely, I go to the movies with groups of people chastely), they let me finish my faith formation and take communion here. I came into the church last Easter after years of being unable to. I know I've got a profile on this website but it's mostly for support with the annulment from people who've "been there, done that." I guess some of whether you're allowed to do RCIA has to do with the living situation? Mine was very quick, basically I was just interviewed by several people and they asked me a lot of doctrinal questions.

07/27/2012 new

(Quote) Katherine-868943 said: I'm divorced but living chastely (very chastely, I go to the movies with groups of people...
(Quote) Katherine-868943 said:

I'm divorced but living chastely (very chastely, I go to the movies with groups of people chastely), they let me finish my faith formation and take communion here. I came into the church last Easter after years of being unable to. I know I've got a profile on this website but it's mostly for support with the annulment from people who've "been there, done that." I guess some of whether you're allowed to do RCIA has to do with the living situation? Mine was very quick, basically I was just interviewed by several people and they asked me a lot of doctrinal questions.

--hide--


I am sure it does Katherine. The gentleman I know who was stalled is married outside of the church to a woman who has not completed an annulment. It's sticky all the way around.

07/27/2012 new

(Quote) Sandra-471894 said: I have a question about marriage, divorce, etc. in the Catholic church.
(Quote) Sandra-471894 said:





I have a question about marriage, divorce, etc. in the Catholic church.

If a man and woman separate after being married in the Catholic church and have two children; they get a civil divorce; both remarry in a civil marriage; the man's new wife (after 20 years of marriage) decides to study, get baptized, make her communion, and confirmation and become Catholic; ............can he and his 2nd wife get married in the church without him getting an annulment of his first marriage?


--hide--
I think this has already been covered, but I will toss in my two cents for redundancy is not always bad.

The original marriage in the Church is still the only one recognized by the Church until such time as it is shown to have fault. An Annulment is a declaration that there was something wrong or missing from the original sacrament. Only a cannon lawyer or someone very familiar with the workings of the tribunal should advise you (or the lady in question) on the probability of success. Annulments can take as little as a year or up to two years depending on how busy your tribunal happens to be.

On a nice "collateral damage" point of view, once either of the parties of the original marriage are successful in getting an annulment, it frees both parties to remarry.

I guess that begs a question. Did the wife from the original marriage ever get an annulment, or has she died?

07/27/2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: A few comments: First, consider the possibility there may be things going on you a...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

A few comments:

First, consider the possibility there may be things going on you are not aware of (e.g., they are living a Josephite (celebate) marriage while an annulment is in process).

Assuming the relationship remains conjugal:

> All this is wrong in the churches eyes, but can be confessed and corrected

The situation must first be corrected, then confessed. Remember that a valid confession requires both contrition and a firm purpose of amendment, the latter of which is lacking if the situation causing the sin remains.

I see no problem with the woman going through the RCIA classes and learning more about the Faith.

I'd have to do some research to determine if the baptism is valid when administered under these circumstances. If the baptism was valid and all the sacraments were administered at the same time, the others might not be sacrileges (since the previous mortal sins were remitted by the baptism), however, I don't think it is a good idea to receive them with the intention to resume committing mortal sins.

Even if the sacraments were received validly, once the couple resumes conjugal relations, she may not validly receive the sacraments until there is an intention to resolve the mortal sins.

Is it possible the pastor is not aware of the circumstances?

--hide--
Jerry, you always have a way of pinning down the important stuff and explaining it in clear terms. bravo!

I would guess the Pastor is not aware of the marriage situation, Or he needs some "continuing education" classes.

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