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This room is for supportive and informative discussion about divorce and/or the annulment process. All posters must have been previously divorced or annulled.

Saint Eugene De Mazenod is patron of dysfunctional families & Saint Fabiola obtained a divorce from her first husband prior to devoting her life to charitable works.
Learn More: Saint Eugene De Mazenod and Saint Fabiola

Aug 4th 2012 new

(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said: To my knowledge, you will still need an annulment. If your ex was Baptist, his baptism (i...
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:


To my knowledge, you will still need an annulment. If your ex was Baptist, his baptism (if he had one) may not be considered valid. It may just the short form. You might check with Jerry. He understands the ideosyncracies better than I do. At the very least, he explains them better!

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You rang?

Assuming Leslie was Catholic at the time of the second marriage (which I presume because she petitioned for an annulment for the first marriage) and if the second marriage was performed outside the Church without dispensation from the local ordinary (bishop or archbishop), then she should be able to use the "short form" process for lack of canonical form. This is a fairly quick process (6-8 weeks or less) that involves submitting some paperwork; there s no investigation beyond validating that the facts presented are accurate.

The requirement for canonical form applies to all marriages where at least one spouse is Catholic, regardless of the faith or baptismal status of the other party. The baptismal status of the spouses affects whether the marriage is sacramental, but not whether it is valid: even two non-baptised people can have a valid marriage and thus not able to receive a decree of nullity (aka annulment). There are some situations where a valid marriage between at least one spouse who was unbaptized may be dissolved under the Petrine or Pauline privileges. This is fairly rare because of the very limited circumstances under which these privileges apply and because the process is handled in Rome and can be very lengthy. For this reason, the marriage tribunals usually recommend going through the annulment process first.

Leslie, the first person to contact is your parish priest or the designated contact in your parish. But do be aware that, as someone else noted, many parish priests are not very familiar with the process and may give you an incorrect answer (in either direction). If you are told something different that what we've told you here, check directly with the marriage tribunal for your diocese, who are the authority on these matters. This is especially true if you are told you don't need an annulment because you were married outside the Church.

Aug 4th 2012 new

Thank you so much, Jerry, I appreciate all this information!

Aug 4th 2012 new

FYI, as long as someone is baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (correct form), then the baptism is valid and Sacramental, no matter whether catholic or not, no matter who performed it. E.g, my baptism was done by a non-denominational pastor when I wasn't catholic and is valid & sacramental; I baptized my own children in a swimming pool, and it was declared valid and sacramental. Both were carried out in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


I hope Leslie that you are able to deal with this matter very soon. God bless you.

Aug 9th 2012 new

Leslie, the issue is whether or not you are catholic. Since you are in here I presume you are...which means you did not marry in the proper form for your tradition, even if he did. This means you lacked form in your second marriage and that alone is grounds for the annulment. Where it took place is not relevent, nor is his cheating and lying. It has to do with his ability and intent at the time of the marriage, but more importantly the form.

Aug 9th 2012 new

Elizabeth, three things are required for a valid baptism: 1) intent to be baptized/baptize the person, 2) water (even a little saliva will do it) 3) the baptism in the name of the trinity...father, son, holy spirit.

Aug 9th 2012 new

(Quote) Zan-885055 said: Elizabeth, three things are required for a valid baptism: 1) intent to be baptized/baptize the pers...
(Quote) Zan-885055 said:

Elizabeth, three things are required for a valid baptism: 1) intent to be baptized/baptize the person, 2) water (even a little saliva will do it) 3) the baptism in the name of the trinity...father, son, holy spirit.

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Thanks for clarifying that Zan. My main point was to make it clear that a Protestant baptism is usually valid, and therefore not (usually) a basis for using the short form of annulment.

Aug 10th 2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: You rang? Assuming Leslie was Catholic at the time of the second marriage (which I...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

You rang?

Assuming Leslie was Catholic at the time of the second marriage (which I presume because she petitioned for an annulment for the first marriage) and if the second marriage was performed outside the Church without dispensation from the local ordinary (bishop or archbishop), then she should be able to use the "short form" process for lack of canonical form. This is a fairly quick process (6-8 weeks or less) that involves submitting some paperwork; there s no investigation beyond validating that the facts presented are accurate.

The requirement for canonical form applies to all marriages where at least one spouse is Catholic, regardless of the faith or baptismal status of the other party. The baptismal status of the spouses affects whether the marriage is sacramental, but not whether it is valid: even two non-baptised people can have a valid marriage and thus not able to receive a decree of nullity (aka annulment). There are some situations where a valid marriage between at least one spouse who was unbaptized may be dissolved under the Petrine or Pauline privileges. This is fairly rare because of the very limited circumstances under which these privileges apply and because the process is handled in Rome and can be very lengthy. For this reason, the marriage tribunals usually recommend going through the annulment process first.

Leslie, the first person to contact is your parish priest or the designated contact in your parish. But do be aware that, as someone else noted, many parish priests are not very familiar with the process and may give you an incorrect answer (in either direction). If you are told something different that what we've told you here, check directly with the marriage tribunal for your diocese, who are the authority on these matters. This is especially true if you are told you don't need an annulment because you were married outside the Church.

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As a result it is often better to contact the Tribunal first or even a Marriage and Family life office who can provide some support as well as directing you to the best person to speak with.

Sep 2nd 2012 new

It is my understanding that a Baptist Baptism is one of only a few recognized as valid by the Catholic Church as they baptize in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and do not require a person to be baptized again in the Catholic Church.

Steve wave

Sep 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Elizabeth-860032 said: Thanks for clarifying that Zan. My main point was to make it clear that a Protestant bapt...
(Quote) Elizabeth-860032 said:


Thanks for clarifying that Zan. My main point was to make it clear that a Protestant baptism is usually valid, and therefore not (usually) a basis for using the short form of annulment.

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The validity of oen spouse's baptism has no bearing on whether a lack of form (aka the short form) annulment is an option.

The requirement for canonical form is binding only on Catholics; it does not bind non-Catholics, regardless of whether they are baptized or the nature of their baptism.

If at least one spouse was Catholic and the marriage did not adhere to canonical form, the short annulment process is used. If neither spouse was Catholic, the lack of form annulment is not an option.

Sep 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Steve-72317 said: It is my understanding that a Baptist Baptism is one of only a few recognized as valid by the Cath...
(Quote) Steve-72317 said:

It is my understanding that a Baptist Baptism is one of only a few recognized as valid by the Catholic Church as they baptize in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and do not require a person to be baptized again in the Catholic Church.

Steve

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It is true Baptist baptisms are valid (unless the person administering the baptism uses the correct matter and form and has the proper intent). I don't know how many other Protestant denominations also have a Trinitarian baptism, so I can't comment on whether the quantification ("only a few") is accurate.

Keep in mind, however, that the validity of the baptism does not factor into the annulment process/requirements if the person was not Catholic at the time of the marriage. It may, however, be a factor for dissolution under the Petrine or Pauline privileges.

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