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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Judging Others - Thoughts

08/29/2012 new

I just saw a poster of a young looking girl, head hanging low, standing in the rain. The caption read, "Do Not Judge 'You do not know what storm I have asked her to walk through' God"

Since I have been here, when topics get heated, the argument goes back and forth between pointing the sin out to someone - showing them the error of their ways - a variety of different euphemisms vs. judging others. If it is brought to any person's attention that it sounds like judgment, the topic falls apart completely.

Where is the line drawn between living Godly "separate" lives, and just being judgmental. I will be honest in that I do not ascribe to the separate and apart. Christ sat with the sinners and I live to emulate the life He lived. I am not trying to change anyone else's stance, just curious. heart

08/29/2012 new

(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said: I just saw a poster of a young looking girl, head hanging low, standing in the rain. The capt...
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:

I just saw a poster of a young looking girl, head hanging low, standing in the rain. The caption read, "Do Not Judge 'You do not know what storm I have asked her to walk through' God"

Since I have been here, when topics get heated, the argument goes back and forth between pointing the sin out to someone - showing them the error of their ways - a variety of different euphemisms vs. judging others. If it is brought to any person's attention that it sounds like judgment, the topic falls apart completely.

Where is the line drawn between living Godly "separate" lives, and just being judgmental. I will be honest in that I do not ascribe to the separate and apart. Christ sat with the sinners and I live to emulate the life He lived. I am not trying to change anyone else's stance, just curious.

--hide--


For me, being judgmental means I'm condemning the person as bad, and rejecting them completely. Judging a person's actions, however, is different. I can be stupid and hurtful at a point in time. Does that make me a stupid and hurtful person? (I think not!)

I'm going to steal a post I made in the Pinkie Room, since it seems to apply here.

We never know what's really behind the photo displayed, the smile we see, do we?
We should maybe handle each other with kid gloves more often, eh?
That tart remark or the zingy zinger may just be feeble echoes from long-ago battles, or the ugly scab covering a wound.
As it is often that people are struggling with history in the present (I yell at you because you just spoke to me the way my mother did when I was a little girl and I hated it), maybe we'd be better off if we didn't take certain things too personally.
Which can be difficult to do when we're dealing with our own echoes.

Along with that, "showing the error of their ways" CAN be a euphemistic way that someone is judging the PERSON rather than the action or belief. But as Christian brothers and sisters, we ARE to show the error of someone's way. HOW we do it would be the key. At the same time, the HOW it's done by someone can be an indication of what turmoil is going on inside of THEM.

08/29/2012 new

(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said: I just saw a poster of a young looking girl, head hanging low, standing in the rain. The capt...
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:

I just saw a poster of a young looking girl, head hanging low, standing in the rain. The caption read, "Do Not Judge 'You do not know what storm I have asked her to walk through' God"

Since I have been here, when topics get heated, the argument goes back and forth between pointing the sin out to someone - showing them the error of their ways - a variety of different euphemisms vs. judging others. If it is brought to any person's attention that it sounds like judgment, the topic falls apart completely.

Where is the line drawn between living Godly "separate" lives, and just being judgmental. I will be honest in that I do not ascribe to the separate and apart. Christ sat with the sinners and I live to emulate the life He lived. I am not trying to change anyone else's stance, just curious.

--hide--

The difference is evaluating the objective morality of an act vs. judging the person who commits said act. Alas, objective morality and the moral relativism that is pervasive even here on CM mix like potassium and water, resulting in the firestorms often seen. Many see morality as a personal opinion that is open to debate and ultimately individual choice, the same as any other opinion; the concept of an absolute standard against which everyone will be judged is completely foreign.

08/29/2012 new

I think this is exactly what I am talking about. There have been repeated posts that no 'judgment' is given, but if a person does x, y or z, then then no one should have anything to do with them. That to socialize (choose a word - play, eat, etc.) with said sinner, we would be seen as advocating the sin. I simply can not understand or get behind this principle.

Also, I agree that things should not be taken personally. It is not something I am good at. I was raised to always walk in another's shoes. We do have a responsibility to try to understand how what we say or do affects another person. All of our actions then become personal. All of their history then becomes personal. Circle of life and six degrees of separation. I think we are SUPPOSED to be interconnected. heart

08/29/2012 new

Morality is pretty simple as laid out according to canon law. Judging the person is extremely prevalent here. I see a lot of people use old testament law to back up an argument which is against what Christ taught. There is an absolute standard against which all men will be judged. It is God's law. The church has interepreted that law as we are to follow it.

Again, I see different folks using a priest's opinon to back up a particular argument or objective. We follow a priest vs canon law in which realm of fantasy? I have seen to many bow to pride, popular opinion, ignorance and greed to get behind a collar blindly.

Good points though, all of them. heart

08/30/2012 new

(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said: Morality is pretty simple as laid out according to canon law. Judging the person is extremely...
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:

Morality is pretty simple as laid out according to canon law. Judging the person is extremely prevalent here. I see a lot of people use old testament law to back up an argument which is against what Christ taught. There is an absolute standard against which all men will be judged. It is God's law. The church has interepreted that law as we are to follow it.

Again, I see different folks using a priest's opinon to back up a particular argument or objective. We follow a priest vs canon law in which realm of fantasy? I have seen to many bow to pride, popular opinion, ignorance and greed to get behind a collar blindly.

Good points though, all of them.

--hide--



I would like to say that I don't judge others but that would not be true. I think being people we have a tendency to judge whether it is intentional or unintentional. It seems that when I have been judgemental of another person, God always seems to convict me and I am have to face my attitudes. I know I don't like to be judged and have had painful experiences that caused me to leave the church for many years, so I don't want to do that to others but I am human and definitely not perfect.

08/30/2012 new

(Quote) Marirose-887295 said: I would like to say that I don't judge others but that would not be true. I th...
(Quote) Marirose-887295 said:




I would like to say that I don't judge others but that would not be true. I think being people we have a tendency to judge whether it is intentional or unintentional. It seems that when I have been judgemental of another person, God always seems to convict me and I am have to face my attitudes. I know I don't like to be judged and have had painful experiences that caused me to leave the church for many years, so I don't want to do that to others but I am human and definitely not perfect.

--hide--



I think I judge myself harder than any other individual ever will. And what I think about someone is usually more about their reaction to something they have done rather than their action. Everybody makes mistakes. We all have things we aren't proud of, words we wish we could take back. But what do we do with that? Do we make our ammends and move forward or do we brag about and defend our actions?

There was a good clip in our church bulletin a while ago. It was about a man that was driving and stopped at a yellow light rather than accelerating through it. A woman behind him started honking her horn, making gestures and he could see she was yelling at him for not going through it. Soon there was a tap on her window and the policeman took her into his car and talked to her. She was brought in, booked and fingerprinted and put in a cell. Later that evening, she was brought to the front desk where her lawyer was waiting. The officer in charge apologized and said, "I'm sorry for the mistake. When the arresting officer saw the stickers on your car "Respect Life", "Trust in God", "Love Thy Neighbor", he assumed you had stolen the vehicle. So do our actions reflect our beliefs?

The more we open ourselves up to professing our faith, the more we will be judged. Right or wrong, it will happen. Ultimately, it's no one's call except the final judge.

08/30/2012 new

I think that you and I come from the same place in some of this. I know what types of mistakes I made when I was away from the church. I also know how much some of the comments from devout people hurt at that time. I think I try to be twice as careful because of it. heart

08/30/2012 new

(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:

--hide--

> I see a lot of people use old testament law to back up an argument which is against what Christ taught

Since there are two ways you can go with this and the most common path is more often than not invalid, I need to ask for examples.

> Morality is pretty simple as laid out according to canon law.

The moral teachings of the Church are the subject of moral theology, not canon law. The canons are based on moral theology, but there is much in moral theology you won't find expressed in canon law.

> Judging the person is extremely prevalent here. I see a lot of people use old testament law to back up an argument which is against what Christ taught. There is an absolute standard against which all men will be judged. It is God's law. The church has interepreted that law as we are to follow it.

The New Testament is a fulfillment of the Old, not a replacement for it (cf CCC 120-130). All too often it is argues that something is no longer valid solely because it is prescribed in the Old Testament. This is faulty reasoning.

> Again, I see different folks using a priest's opinon to back up a particular argument or objective. We follow a priest vs canon law in which realm of fantasy? I have seen to many bow to pride, popular opinion, ignorance and greed to get behind a collar blindly.

Again, I'd like to see examples of what you are speaking of. Obviously, the word of a priest cannot be taken over the law or teachings of the church. I can't say that people never argue the position of a priest over the teaching of the Church, but I can't recall any off-hand. Where priests are usually cited is in providing explanations of the Church's teachings, particularly their application to situations that are not directly addresses by the explicit teachings of the Church. Priests are trained in the seminary for 7+ years so they can do exactly this.




08/30/2012 new

(Quote) Marirose-887295 said:I would like to say that I don't judge others but that would not be true. I think being pe...
(Quote) Marirose-887295 said:

I would like to say that I don't judge others but that would not be true. I think being people we have a tendency to judge whether it is intentional or unintentional. It seems that when I have been judgemental of another person, God always seems to convict me and I am have to face my attitudes. I know I don't like to be judged and have had painful experiences that caused me to leave the church for many years, so I don't want to do that to others but I am human and definitely not perfect.

--hide--

I agree that most people do judge others more often than they realize. But I also see that in many cases people are overly sensitive about being judged. They don't like being told their personal moral interpretations are incorrect and mistake this fraternal correction for judgment.

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