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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Sep 11th 2012 new

(Quote) Andrew-674389 said: We’ve all heard the saying, “Nice guys finish last,” but does that really hold...
(Quote) Andrew-674389 said:

We’ve all heard the saying, “Nice guys finish last,” but does that really hold true?

I’ve often found that many girls have an attraction towards “the bad boys.” More specifically, a man she can change, or make better. From what I’ve been told, they want to be the one girl a man cared so much about that he was willing to change his ways in order to be with her. She was able to show him what he was truly missing. If this doesn’t make sense, just watch the movie, “A Walk to Remember.” What girl doesn’t melt when she watches that movie? Maybe it’s that “the good guys” aren’t a challenge or they lack the excitement “the bad boys” offer? I once saw a t-shirt with writing on the front that said “Where did all the good guys go?” On the back it said, “You left them in the ‘friend zone.’”

On a website such as CatholicMatch, I would think that the comments above wouldn’t necessarily hold true, but recent conversations with mature, Catholic female friends have led me to believe otherwise. The desire to find someone with faults they could improve was still there.

We all want to find someone we can better, right? Isn’t that part of what makes us Christians? But does that put “the good guy” at a disadvantage in the dating world? Most of us highlight our strong attributes when building our profiles, but should the guys be highlighting their faults too? We all have them. When should we make them known?

I’m not really looking for a specific answer; I just thought it was an interesting discussion point. As much as I love feedback from anyone, I’m curious what my age group has to say.

--hide--

Keith

Sep 11th 2012 new

I can gratefully say that you are very far from the truth. I'm not really sure where your assessment came from based off of the questions I posted. I apologize for any confusion or lack of clarity I provided. Fearing of getting off topic, I sent you a message via your profile for my response.

Sep 11th 2012 new

FYI: The previous comment is for Bill.

Sep 11th 2012 new

first all I love this post, it's a great discussion. I personally am not a girl who is attracted to the 'bad-boy'. I do think it's a maturity thing than an age thing. I've always been more mature than the rest of my age-group. So I could never understand the attraction on bad boys. I could see right through when someone was trying to play me. What girls like, at least what I want, is a true man. And you have to define what that is. For me it's a gentleman. Who can take care of you, make you feel save, who has a strong will, who has morals and values and keeps to them. Those things make a man confident. 'bad boy' - confident is when you feel you can get any girl, play with them and get what you want no matter the cost. That in my eyes is not confidence.

The thing is, is that girls are usually to naive and can't see through the game. And boys unfortunaley feel they have to get their confidence by the amount of girls they can get. Like some of the posts said, the nice-guys are to afraid to make a move. Therefor girls won't know if a boy like her. When it comes to shyness. I don't mind that. I rather think it's really cute to have a guy try to show his feelings and be nervous. It's shows me that he really might like me and is not just playing a game.

I do want to point out by the way that I have also seen that the nice-guys go for the mean girl. so why is that? Why be attracted to a mean girl. It's all a game I don't like to play. mean girls get the good guys, good girls get the bad guys.

Sep 12th 2012 new

I look at this from a standpoint of human biology [I do believe in evolution as a process used by God; I do not think Darwin and God are mutually exclusive]. Anyhow, I think that women are faced with a dilemma when it comes to mate selection. Typically, your dominant, charming, occasionally sociopathic alpha male type tends to have more survivable genes, so women have a tendency to gravitate toward that when it comes to sexual attraction.

However, women (and females of other species, particularly songbirds) also seem to realize that the alpha male has a lot of choice when it comes to mates, and that he is not likely to stick around to raise the young with the mother. As a result, the female is also on the lookout for a "nice guy", the beta male who is more likely to remain with her and the children.

Human social institutions seem to do everything they can to encourage women to attach herself to the beta male. They encourage belonging to groups and only standing out in accepted ways that somehow advance the interests of the group rather than the individual. (Unlike birds, humans have also have had to concern themselves with things like inheritances, social stigma, letgitimacy of successions, so a greater emphasis is placed on following set rules, i.e., being a "nice guy")

However, the physiques and secondary sexual characteristics that indicate virility, ability to impregnate (it is theorized that women look at men's backsides and knowingly or not are evaluating his capacity to coitally thrust) and survivability of genes still present a siren song to females who, in the more primitive parts of their brain near the stem, are really just trying to help prospective children survive. (They may also want to ride on the bike of a motorcycle or dance with the Patrick Swayze, but I digress.)

I think most women ultimately choose some blend of good/bad boy in whatever proportion of each most meets their varied needs. But I think that it is the tension between those two archetypes, between the ability to swim in society as well as the ability to stand against it for better or worse, that animates life and makes it interesting. A world with nothing but choir boys would be boring. A world with nothing but bikers would be, well, medieval Europe basically. God needs everyone.


Sep 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Bernadette-605528 said: Get ready for a rant... Sometimes nice guys finish last because they don't do anything. ...
(Quote) Bernadette-605528 said:

Get ready for a rant... Sometimes nice guys finish last because they don't do anything. Lots of "nice guys" are shy, socially awkward, suffer from a lack self-confidence, etc. For these and other reasons, they generally fade into the background and are left alone because girls equate their lack of action with a lack of interest. The "bad boys" are usually the loud attention-getting ones, the ones who are either self-confident, charismatic jerks who ask girls out as entertainment or who are charismatic but simultaneously extremely insecure and possesive and who ask girls out only as a way to validate themselves as "men". This may sound cynical, but I've seen it borne out over and over. Nice guys finish last because they hesitate and procrastinate and leave nice girls wondering where the heck they are. Also, any girl who is seriously, intentionally looking for a human home-improvement project is either A. Naive or B. Controlling.


Alright, enough of the for today.

--hide--

I agree.. the definitive way to find if a person is good or bad is to communicate. From what I have seen is, a good guy might not be attractive nor loud enough to create attention but will be quite to listen to what other person has to say. its a good quality. Sometimes people are just looking for saints or probably Christ in human form. we have to know that Mary as a perfect women ( a mother and a holy spouse of Holy spirit) can be found in deep heart of a person and shyness offer cover it up. Praying with someone is to "communicate" within. I would encourage everyone to pray for and pray with person you are pursuing to know the movement in heart. Anyone with genuine heart will know what is best after that.

God bless and peace

Nishi

Sep 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Andrew-674389 said: We’ve all heard the saying, “Nice guys finish last,” but does that really hold...
(Quote) Andrew-674389 said:

We’ve all heard the saying, “Nice guys finish last,” but does that really hold true?

I’ve often found that many girls have an attraction towards “the bad boys.” More specifically, a man she can change, or make better. From what I’ve been told, they want to be the one girl a man cared so much about that he was willing to change his ways in order to be with her. She was able to show him what he was truly missing. If this doesn’t make sense, just watch the movie, “A Walk to Remember.” What girl doesn’t melt when she watches that movie? Maybe it’s that “the good guys” aren’t a challenge or they lack the excitement “the bad boys” offer? I once saw a t-shirt with writing on the front that said “Where did all the good guys go?” On the back it said, “You left them in the ‘friend zone.’”

On a website such as CatholicMatch, I would think that the comments above wouldn’t necessarily hold true, but recent conversations with mature, Catholic female friends have led me to believe otherwise. The desire to find someone with faults they could improve was still there.

We all want to find someone we can better, right? Isn’t that part of what makes us Christians? But does that put “the good guy” at a disadvantage in the dating world? Most of us highlight our strong attributes when building our profiles, but should the guys be highlighting their faults too? We all have them. When should we make them known?

I’m not really looking for a specific answer; I just thought it was an interesting discussion point. As much as I love feedback from anyone, I’m curious what my age group has to say.

--hide--


Speaking as a reformed bad boy, I can relate to women wanting to be with you thinking they can change you. I would say that I was not a extreme case though. I was never abusive in any way because I was raised that way by my Grandparents (Thank you God) I do not know what makes a woman want to be with a "Bad boy". Most of the people that I use to hang out with who are still "Bad boys" are chronically unemployed, spend more time in jail than they do outside of jail, ARE infact phisically abusive, no question about the fact that they are mentally abusive and if a woman happens to get pregnate by one of these men, they will STILL not change. These are REAL"Bad boys" But a weak minded woman... plus a manipulative "Bad boy".... Well, it might take awhile before that woman really figures out what is going on in her relationship. Then of course there are guys who try to act all bad. They might attract a woman with this fake act... Dressing the part, talking the part, some even go as far as to get the tatoos and a dramatic hairstyle. But the seccond a real criminal or thug wants to "beat them up", they back down. But the funny thing is a lot of women even seem to go for this type of guy. But of course, women are attracted to a man with confidence.

Just my two cents and experience though. I know this does not apply to all women or even all Bad boys. Actually, other than my own experience in this matter what do I know? :)

Sep 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Bernadette-605528 said: Get ready for a rant... Sometimes nice guys finish last because they don't do anything. ...
(Quote) Bernadette-605528 said:

Get ready for a rant... Sometimes nice guys finish last because they don't do anything. Lots of "nice guys" are shy, socially awkward, suffer from a lack self-confidence, etc. For these and other reasons, they generally fade into the background and are left alone because girls equate their lack of action with a lack of interest. The "bad boys" are usually the loud attention-getting ones, the ones who are either self-confident, charismatic jerks who ask girls out as entertainment or who are charismatic but simultaneously extremely insecure and possesive and who ask girls out only as a way to validate themselves as "men". This may sound cynical, but I've seen it borne out over and over. Nice guys finish last because they hesitate and procrastinate and leave nice girls wondering where the heck they are. Also, any girl who is seriously, intentionally looking for a human home-improvement project is either A. Naive or B. Controlling.


Alright, enough of the for today.

--hide--

omg this is win, I agree!! "nice guys" complain about the bad boys, well, they should learn some tips from them: dress well, be confident, learn to laugh, take risks, be sexy... that's not being a "bad boy" per se it's just being a MAN. grow up and stop bragging about what a "good boy" you are, prove it!

Sep 13th 2012 new

[quote]Bernadette-605528 said:

Lots of "nice guys" are shy, socially awkward, suffer from a lack self-confidence, etc. For these and other reasons, they generally fade into the background and are left alone because girls equate their lack of action with a lack of interest.

Excellant post Bernadette ( coincidentally, my mothers middle name)

I've been called a good guy so many times it's almost embarrassing now. The good guys, in my opinion, are the geeks that were the picked on, thrown in the gym locker, never invited to parties, wore normal clothes rather than the team uniform everywhere, and attempted sports, but were drown out because they weren't 'mean enough' to treat the advisary as a punching bags. Yes, I was one of the geeks, not pocket protector geek, but somewhere in the middle. We treated everyone that treated us as humans as friends and ignored the rest. Unfortunately, children in grade school act like children when they get to highschool or college and the systmatic treatment never changes. We are insecure because we never got the chance to proove our self value because we weren't born with the right genes to make us 6ft5 and muscles and were 'cute' , but we were born with the right genes from our parents that taught us right from wrong. I see once in a while some of the 'bad boys' that had the right stuff in high school and now have been divorced 2 or 3 times and work every day, all day to pay child support and alimony (they're the ones that use to stuff me in the locker). I think it's the excitment that gets ladies hooked young and it fizzles when Monday night football is more important than you are.

I unfortunately, I was probably one of the human home improvement projects as I married a 'bad girl'. No regrets. I have two great sons. She is off controlling someone else. (lord help him).

I agree what someone posted that it is more about what you see in your own family growing up that determines what you are looking for when you get older. sadly, with so many single parent families now a days, our children don't see both sides of the picture.

Don't know what to tell you Andrew, just have to keep looking.

PS Proud to say that I shoot in the low 70's from the back tee's (for you golfers out there). If you're a golfer looking to get out, I'd be more happy to meet you somewhere.

Sep 13th 2012 new

Guilty as charged. I am totally attracted to unhealthy men. I realized it though and I know longer date them......... and that is what has brought me to Catholic Match. I don't think it is that I want to fix them, but maybe it is.....

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