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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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You're so close minded?

Sep 9th 2012 new

Brothers and sisters I just wanted to share these thoughts with you, largely taken from Father this afternoon at Mass. So often you and I tend to meet people in the secular world who often tell us we should be more open minded and that actually holding to our own beliefs somehow makes us inferior to them (close-minded). Holding to a set of values naturally means we have to reject others. The truth is that regardless of the state in life we're in, we all practice selective hearing. If we didn't we would go insane and we wouldn't be able to function.


In fact when we hear people ask us to be open minded, what it actually does is close our minds to objective truth. "Keep an open mind" is used as a battle cry for moral relativists, because in the end, what they wish you to do is to recognize any position to have equal value. But the moment you ask if his position of equivilency should be considered true, they cannot answer. To do so would no longer make him a moral relativist.


So the moment anybody asks you to be more open minded about (for example) not attending mass every Sunday, you may want to ask them to be more open minded to what the Church actually teaches, like you know, going to Mass every Sunday to give respect and honor to our Lord, and receive him in the most blessed sacrament, and besides, it helps fulfill the third commandment.


scratchchin


Any similar situations?


God bless,


Jim

Sep 9th 2012 new

I can address a few of these thoughts actually. I made a conscious choice about 2.5 years ago on who I wanted in my life. I have no choice in work or at school. The people that were part of my life in the very small amount of free time that I have is my choice. I chose initially only those that were very healthy, mentally and emotionally, or trying to be very healthy. That was a great start, but I was told repeatedly that I needed more in my life than work, school and church. About nine months later, I added what probably should have come first, ALL people in my life must love God first and be serious about serving him. I no longer have ANY issues with people telling me I ought to be doing x, y or z. We're all doing the same thing! I do not tell others that their beliefs are wrong, I just do not invite them into my inner circle.


Along these same lines, last fall when I was serving on team for a retreat, I had a similar conversation. During dinner, someone stopped and looked at me and said, "You sure have a lot of rules to live by." I was surprised at first, and slightly puzzled. I asked her to clarify and she mentioned several things. My final response was, "I do not see it that way. I have God's law and the explanation of that law as set forth my canon law. It all seems very simple to me." It is really. The rules are not really difficult. They are hard to follow without stumbling, but we manage. Even in the face of adversity, if we look to the rules of our church and the example that Christ set forth, how we handle ourselves in any situation is pretty simple.

God bless you and God speed on your path. heart

Sep 9th 2012 new

(Quote) Jim-388330 said: Brothers and sisters I just wanted to share these thoughts with you, largely taken from Father this...
(Quote) Jim-388330 said:

Brothers and sisters I just wanted to share these thoughts with you, largely taken from Father this afternoon at Mass. So often you and I tend to meet people in the secular world who often tell us we should be more open minded and that actually holding to our own beliefs somehow makes us inferior to them (close-minded). Holding to a set of values naturally means we have to reject others. The truth is that regardless of the state in life we're in, we all practice selective hearing. If we didn't we would go insane and we wouldn't be able to function.


In fact when we hear people ask us to be open minded, what it actually does is close our minds to objective truth. "Keep an open mind" is used as a battle cry for moral relativists, because in the end, what they wish you to do is to recognize any position to have equal value. But the moment you ask if his position of equivilency should be considered true, they cannot answer. To do so would no longer make him a moral relativist.


So the moment anybody asks you to be more open minded about (for example) not attending mass every Sunday, you may want to ask them to be more open minded to what the Church actually teaches, like you know, going to Mass every Sunday to give respect and honor to our Lord, and receive him in the most blessed sacrament, and besides, it helps fulfill the third commandment.

--hide--

This is a good start, but it leaves us dangling in the end.

It is true many of those who profess to be open-minded are very close-minded when it comes to objective truths: exhibiting angry, often hostile, reactions. Opening their minds would reduce the agitated attacks against the truth, which then becomes one choice among many equals -- another opinion. There;s still a very large gap to be bridged.

Sep 9th 2012 new

(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said: Along these same lines, last fall when I was serving on team for a retreat, I had a si...
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:


Along these same lines, last fall when I was serving on team for a retreat, I had a similar conversation. During dinner, someone stopped and looked at me and said, "You sure have a lot of rules to live by." I was surprised at first, and slightly puzzled. I asked her to clarify and she mentioned several things. My final response was, "I do not see it that way. I have God's law and the explanation of that law as set forth my canon law. It all seems very simple to me." It is really. The rules are not really difficult. They are hard to follow without stumbling, but we manage. Even in the face of adversity, if we look to the rules of our church and the example that Christ set forth, how we handle ourselves in any situation is pretty simple.

--hide--

One of the biggest problems is that people see the Church's rules as being restrictive -- an attempt to control our behavior -- something many in modern society bristle at, to say the least.

In reality, the rules are there to guide us to the end that God has destined for us, to to restrict us. God created man with a purpose -- and with a nature suited to serving that purpose. Unfortunately, Original Sin clouds both our perception and our intellect, making it much easier for us to stray from that which we were created for. Thus God, through His Church, provides the rules that help us to live our lives as God intends - like a guide rope we can follow in the dark. We can let go of the rope and wander away -- the Church doesn't force us to obey the rules -- but the longer we remain away from Her guidance the and further we stray, the harder it will be to get back. And if we aren't holding on to the rope when the final bell is rung, well... sad

 

Sep 10th 2012 new

Jerry, forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by it leaves us dangling at the end.

Sep 10th 2012 new

(Quote) Jim-388330 said: Jerry, forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by it leaves us dangling at the end.
(Quote) Jim-388330 said:

Jerry, forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what you mean by it leaves us dangling at the end.

--hide--

By dangling I meant things may appear to be better, but the problem hasn't been addressed: being "open-minded" doesn't address the errors that led the person to adopt the wrong thinking in the first place; an open-minded person may not reject and attack the truth and being wrong, but it doesn't imply they will accept it themselves.

Sep 10th 2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: By dangling I meant things may appear to be better, but the problem hasn't been addre...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

By dangling I meant things may appear to be better, but the problem hasn't been addressed: being "open-minded" doesn't address the errors that led the person to adopt the wrong thinking in the first place; an open-minded person may not reject and attack the truth and being wrong, but it doesn't imply they will accept it themselves.

--hide--


In this context I am simply referring to those that would suggest we be more open minded such that we should see their way of thinking as being equally valid. In the modern sense the objective of becoming more "open-minded" is never used to acheive a good end. It denies the possibility of ever being incorrect, for if I am more "open-minded" I may just see that his view has equal validity as mine, such that we are both right and neither is really wrong. In fact, going to Mass on Sunday every Sunday so far as we are able is correct, and going to mass when we feel like it, or never, is still wrong. I don't really care how he got to his incorrect conclusion, it is still incorrect.

Sep 10th 2012 new

(Quote) Jim-388330 said: In this context I am simply referring to those that would suggest we be more open minded such t...
(Quote) Jim-388330 said:


In this context I am simply referring to those that would suggest we be more open minded such that we should see their way of thinking as being equally valid. In the modern sense the objective of becoming more "open-minded" is never used to acheive a good end. It denies the possibility of ever being incorrect, for if I am more "open-minded" I may just see that his view has equal validity as mine, such that we are both right and neither is really wrong. In fact, going to Mass on Sunday every Sunday so far as we are able is correct, and going to mass when we feel like it, or never, is still wrong. I don't really care how he got to his incorrect conclusion, it is still incorrect.

--hide--

Most who claim to be open-minded are not, because they reject objective truths -- usually very bitterly.

I was attempting to make two points:

(1) There is some benefit to the above people becoming more open-minded: if they stop rejecting objective truth there will be much less nastiness in these debates. They are still in error, but nicer about it. Given the animosity of some of the moral relativists, this isn't necessarily a bad stepping stone -- as long as we understand it is just that.

(2) As you have stated above.

Nov 13th 2012 new
Just say you are not interested in being a pagan.
Nov 13th 2012 new

(Quote) Jim-388330 said: (Quote) Jerry-74383 said: By dangling I meant things may appear to ...
(Quote) Jim-388330 said:

[quote]Jerry-74383 said:

By dangling I meant things may appear to be better, but the problem hasn't been addressed: being "open-minded" doesn't address the errors that led the person to adopt the wrong thinking in the first place; an open-minded person may not reject and attack the truth and being wrong, but it doesn't imply they will accept it themselves.

--hide--


In this context I am simply referring to those that would suggest we be more open minded such that we should see their way of thinking as being equally valid. In the modern sense the objective of becoming more "open-minded" is never used to acheive a good end. It denies the possibility of ever being incorrect, for if I am more "open-minded" I may just see that his view has equal validity as mine, such that we are both right and neither is really wrong. In fact, going to Mass on Sunday every Sunday so far as we are able is correct, and going to mass when we feel like it, or never, is still wrong. I don't really care how he got to his incorrect conclusion, it is still incorrect.

[/quotthe
This thinking(moral relativism) that you are running up against has been very active for at least 100 years. It is just more flagrant now. The expression of it is more widespread. I loved Anne Maries post. It is true that we have to set some boundaries about who we want in our lives. In doing so we define our morees and we define and redefine who gets into our inner circle. We cannot often change others but we can control our own personal world in so far as who has access to us, generally. You are young so you have a few years to keep bumping into the types of people who challenge your morals. Once you go somewhere to find like minded individuals, you will be pleased to see that that type of flack gets cut back, unless you feel called to stand up for God's laws where the challenge is.

Most people are busy making and discerning those choices in their 20's and maybe 30's... and all along...at various stages..

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