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This room is for supportive and informative discussion about divorce and/or the annulment process. All posters must have been previously divorced or annulled.

Saint Eugene De Mazenod is patron of dysfunctional families & Saint Fabiola obtained a divorce from her first husband prior to devoting her life to charitable works.
Learn More: Saint Eugene De Mazenod and Saint Fabiola

09/14/2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, who have suggested that they may, indee...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, who have suggested that they may, indeed, date. The reality is, if I'm still married to my ex, then I can continue having sex with him in the eyes of the church. Sex without the civil marriage and financial commitment of the marriage. That's better than getting an annulment, when I would not be allowed to have sex with anyone then. I know that sounds preposterous, but if I'm still married to the ex, we can have sex without further commitment. Just saying. I have met many men on here and have started meeting with them. All with the approval of my priest. As many people also have. It's all relative to the individual's frame of reference.
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No, cause as I said above, when you got divorced you knew in your heart it was not a marriage even if you hadn't received your annullment yet confirming this. When in the marriage before the divorce and annullment, I'm sure you kept trying and believing you were in a marriage and were trying to save it...at some point you realized it wasn't a sacramental marriage after all because he was not looking out for your best interest and salvation, so you decided to get divorced...that is when the sex should have ended. The church believes it has to validate what you already know in your heart to keep marriage sacred and to keep people from ditching it at a whim.

09/14/2012 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: Divorce is part of the process that shows that most likely there will be no reconciliation, whic...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Divorce is part of the process that shows that most likely there will be no reconciliation, which of course is part of what they need to know. I am not an authority on this, but to me that seems like common sense. I certainly wouldn't consider marrying someone who got an annullment but no divorce either....for legal reasons and since part of the reason for an annullment is to be able to marry in the church that also makes sense as to why it is necessary before hand. Also, you can't just quote the Bible because the church takes it in context along with teachings and tradition. I'm pretty sure at the time there was a problem with men just ditching their wives whenever they felt like it, and Jesus wanted them to be faithful to their wives...again, not an authority but it makes sense.

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There seems to be in this most rigous Canon community a misunderstanding of the requirements of Canon Law. Canon 1676 REQUIRES -

Code of Canon Law - Can. 1676

"1676 Before accepting a case and whenever there is hope of a favorable outcome, a judge is to use pastoral means to induce the spouses if possible to convalidate the marriage and restore conjugal living."

I believe 1676 has been overlooked and or misconstrued by many 'pastoral' US tribunals seeking the "favorable outcome".

My understanding is that US tribunals will not accept, as per the US Norms, a case UNLESS "there is hope of a favorable outcome" (declaration of nullity). Therefore, a judge must ALWAYS attempt to "use pastoral means to induce the spouses if possible to convalidate the marriage and restore conjugal living." [This] is an objective requirement; however, objective methodology and or process of "pastoral means" is not defined in 1676.

This is what I was seeking, even those I only felt it as a logical thing that WOULD be an OBLIGATION of the 3rd PARTY to the Sacramental Marriage. The Church is a cop-out, missing in action, AWOL (absent without leave) in this regard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The 'monkey' hasn't been put where it belongs. Unfortunately for the Church in my case - they blew it! And every other one too!

09/14/2012 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: I would honestly like to know why men (and women) who are on here for the purpose of dating hav...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:

I would honestly like to know why men (and women) who are on here for the purpose of dating have not at least started their annullments. I've had 2 gentlemen (age/education/etc. appropriate) who are obviously interested (one wanting to meet after messages/phone calls), but who have not started their annullment and don't plan to in the near future. I don't know if the same holds true for divorced women on here. But, I just don't understand why someone who is divorced and wants to date and get into relationship with someone will not start their annullment process. (I had a similar situation with a gentleman in 2005-06 and it ended in heartbreak because there is no ultimate future for the relationship unless one wants to marry outside of the Church - which as a devout Catholic is totally out of the question for me).

So, please answer the question if you would, as to why not start the annullment if you want to date/etc.? (I'm not talking about those divorced persons who clearly state in their profile that they are looking only for friendship.)

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In my case I had to have my ex-wife's baptismal certificate to do a "lack of form" annulment and she refused to give it to me. I just found out a couple of days ago where she was baptized and it has been started.


I would say that since there is much that goes into a full anullment, that there is probably a lot of pain and old wounds that people are afraid of going through. In my case, a lack of form only takes a couple of weeks, but a full annullment can take years and be very painful.

That's my opinion. I think that we need to cut people some slack as this can be a very painful reminder of a bad divorce.


Keith

09/15/2012 new
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, wh...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, who have suggested that they may, indeed, date. The reality is, if I'm still married to my ex, then I can continue having sex with him in the eyes of the church. Sex without the civil marriage and financial commitment of the marriage. That's better than getting an annulment, when I would not be allowed to have sex with anyone then. I know that sounds preposterous, but if I'm still married to the ex, we can have sex without further commitment. Just saying. I have met many men on here and have started meeting with them. All with the approval of my priest. As many people also have. It's all relative to the individual's frame of reference.




No, cause as I said above, when you got divorced you knew in your heart it was not a marriage even if you hadn't received your annullment yet confirming this. When in the marriage before the divorce and annullment, I'm sure you kept trying and believing you were in a marriage and were trying to save it...at some point you realized it wasn't a sacramental marriage after all because he was not looking out for your best interest and salvation, so you decided to get divorced...that is when the sex should have ended. The church believes it has to validate what you already know in your heart to keep marriage sacred and to keep people from ditching it at a whim.

--hide--
Hi Cheryl, If the church just has to validate what I know in my heart already, then I stopped being married when I received the legal divorce. I knew I had God's blessing to leave my marriage, that was truly in my heart. Sex did stop then. Therefore, I am not married still. Therefore, no adultery. You see, I used sex for argument's sake. If I am still married to my ex, as some propose, then I am afforded all those things that are only allowed in marriage. Period.
09/15/2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: (Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathlee...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said:
Quote:
Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, who have suggested that they may, indeed, date. The reality is, if I'm still married to my ex, then I can continue having sex with him in the eyes of the church. Sex without the civil marriage and financial commitment of the marriage. That's better than getting an annulment, when I would not be allowed to have sex with anyone then. I know that sounds preposterous, but if I'm still married to the ex, we can have sex without further commitment. Just saying. I have met many men on here and have started meeting with them. All with the approval of my priest. As many people also have. It's all relative to the individual's frame of reference.




No, cause as I said above, when you got divorced you knew in your heart it was not a marriage even if you hadn't received your annullment yet confirming this. When in the marriage before the divorce and annullment, I'm sure you kept trying and believing you were in a marriage and were trying to save it...at some point you realized it wasn't a sacramental marriage after all because he was not looking out for your best interest and salvation, so you decided to get divorced...that is when the sex should have ended. The church believes it has to validate what you already know in your heart to keep marriage sacred and to keep people from ditching it at a whim.


Hi Cheryl, If the church just has to validate what I know in my heart already, then I stopped being married when I received the legal divorce. I knew I had God's blessing to leave my marriage, that was truly in my heart. Sex did stop then. Therefore, I am not married still. Therefore, no adultery. You see, I used sex for argument's sake. If I am still married to my ex, as some propose, then I am afforded all those things that are only allowed in marriage. Period.
--hide--



Well, I think annullments are more than that too....but I was just making a point too about your point that you could still have sex with your ex after marriage based on not getting the annullment yet....just don't think it works that way....the marriage is over when you get a divorce period.

09/15/2012 new

(Quote) Keith-733524 said: In my case I had to have my ex-wife's baptismal certificate to do a "l...
(Quote) Keith-733524 said:

In my case I had to have my ex-wife's baptismal certificate to do a "lack of form" annulment and she refused to give it to me. I just found out a couple of days ago where she was baptized and it has been started.


I would say that since there is much that goes into a full anullment, that there is probably a lot of pain and old wounds that people are afraid of going through. In my case, a lack of form only takes a couple of weeks, but a full annullment can take years and be very painful.

That's my opinion. I think that we need to cut people some slack as this can be a very painful reminder of a bad divorce.


Keith

--hide--
This is true too... I don't see a problem asking them if they plan on getting it though because you don't want to waste your time and even then you are going to have to wait till they get it to really date or you risk getting hurt by falling for someone who then might not be able to get it. If they out and out tell you that they aren't going to get it, there would be no point in wasting any more time as the relationship can't go anywhere.

09/15/2012 new

(Quote) Keith-733524 said: In my case I had to have my ex-wife's baptismal certificate to do a "l...
(Quote) Keith-733524 said:

In my case I had to have my ex-wife's baptismal certificate to do a "lack of form" annulment and she refused to give it to me. I just found out a couple of days ago where she was baptized and it has been started.


I would say that since there is much that goes into a full anullment, that there is probably a lot of pain and old wounds that people are afraid of going through. In my case, a lack of form only takes a couple of weeks, but a full annullment can take years and be very painful.

That's my opinion. I think that we need to cut people some slack as this can be a very painful reminder of a bad divorce.


Keith

--hide--
This is true too... I don't see a problem asking them if they plan on getting it though because you don't want to waste your time and even then you are going to have to wait till they get it to really date or you risk getting hurt by falling for someone who then might not be able to get it. If they out and out tell you that they aren't going to get it, there would be no point in wasting any more time as the relationship can't go anywhere.

09/15/2012 new

I agree that some people don't see the value of an annullment if no marriage is in the near future. My pastor informed me that in the eyes of the church i was still married and could not have a relationship even if was non-sexual. I started my annullment process 6 months after the divorce. If it wasn't for that conversation with my pastor I would have waited. The thought of not receiving the Eucharist motivated to start the process. I was told that it helps you heal emotionally.

09/15/2012 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: I would honestly like to know why men (and women) who are on here for the purpose of dating hav...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:

I would honestly like to know why men (and women) who are on here for the purpose of dating have not at least started their annullments. I've had 2 gentlemen (age/education/etc. appropriate) who are obviously interested (one wanting to meet after messages/phone calls), but who have not started their annullment and don't plan to in the near future. I don't know if the same holds true for divorced women on here. But, I just don't understand why someone who is divorced and wants to date and get into relationship with someone will not start their annullment process. (I had a similar situation with a gentleman in 2005-06 and it ended in heartbreak because there is no ultimate future for the relationship unless one wants to marry outside of the Church - which as a devout Catholic is totally out of the question for me).

So, please answer the question if you would, as to why not start the annullment if you want to date/etc.? (I'm not talking about those divorced persons who clearly state in their profile that they are looking only for friendship.)

--hide--


Patricia great topic. I just occasionally post, can't resist this one. Filing for a divorce was traumatizing emotionally, but once started had to be completed since it directly affects finances, property, and children on a daily basis.

I wasn't sure at the time of my divorce I would ever file for an annulment. My parish priest suggested we talk about it when I had time, it was 3 yrs later that we talked. What he most wanted me to understand was that the reflective nature of the process would have great value for me. I spent 3 months writing my responses, because it was difficult to see my marital details in print. The end result is being emotionally free and thus open to more life.

Logic is the reason not to date without an annulment at least filed. Divorce dissolves legal issues, annulment heals the theheart I''ll leave it at that.

09/15/2012 new
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: (Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: (Quote) L...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said:
Quote:
Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: Hi Kathleen. Many people have had counseling with their priests, who have suggested that they may, indeed, date. The reality is, if I'm still married to my ex, then I can continue having sex with him in the eyes of the church. Sex without the civil marriage and financial commitment of the marriage. That's better than getting an annulment, when I would not be allowed to have sex with anyone then. I know that sounds preposterous, but if I'm still married to the ex, we can have sex without further commitment. Just saying. I have met many men on here and have started meeting with them. All with the approval of my priest. As many people also have. It's all relative to the individual's frame of reference.




No, cause as I said above, when you got divorced you knew in your heart it was not a marriage even if you hadn't received your annullment yet confirming this. When in the marriage before the divorce and annullment, I'm sure you kept trying and believing you were in a marriage and were trying to save it...at some point you realized it wasn't a sacramental marriage after all because he was not looking out for your best interest and salvation, so you decided to get divorced...that is when the sex should have ended. The church believes it has to validate what you already know in your heart to keep marriage sacred and to keep people from ditching it at a whim.


Hi Cheryl, If the church just has to validate what I know in my heart already, then I stopped being married when I received the legal divorce. I knew I had God's blessing to leave my marriage, that was truly in my heart. Sex did stop then. Therefore, I am not married still. Therefore, no adultery. You see, I used sex for argument's sake. If I am still married to my ex, as some propose, then I am afforded all those things that are only allowed in marriage. Period.




Well, I think annullments are more than that too....but I was just making a point too about your point that you could still have sex with your ex after marriage based on not getting the annullment yet....just don't think it works that way....the marriage is over when you get a divorce period.

--hide--
Yes,I agree. The marriage is over after the divorce is finalized and the decree is signed by both.
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