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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Sep 23rd 2012 new

Hi everybody,

Great article very well explained it got me thinking..............
I loved the videos!!!!!!!
I was talking about this with a friend yesterday she said o h you can meet a good man that fears God at church and I was asking how the ones that go have girlfriends, wives, children, are too old or young for me.
Saludoswave Praying

Sep 23rd 2012 new
(Quote) Pat-5351 said: This article from the Archdiocese of Washington blog is by a priest who makes some excellent points on why we are a...
(Quote) Pat-5351 said:

This article from the Archdiocese of Washington blog is by a priest who makes some excellent points on why we are all not married, and the underlying problems with seeking that one PERFECT person (who does not exist), and why it's an issue for both men and women:



blog.adw.org

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rose rose rose rose rose rose

rose rose rose rose rose rose
Sep 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Pat-5351 said: This article from the Archdiocese of Washington blog is by a priest who makes some excellent points o...
(Quote) Pat-5351 said:

This article from the Archdiocese of Washington blog is by a priest who makes some excellent points on why we are all not married, and the underlying problems with seeking that one PERFECT person (who does not exist), and why it's an issue for both men and women:

blog.adw.org

--hide--
Yes it is a really great article for sure---thanks for sharing

Sep 23rd 2012 new

Great article. There is a lot of truth in it. Lots to think about.

Sep 23rd 2012 new


Thank you for sharing Pat.

The article was interesting...I think we all accept and experience God's teaching that no one is perfect except Him, however, I also think that with online dating it does encourage a lot of elimination due to the information that is shared...this process is efficient and effective to a point.

The one challenge I find with on line dating is the distance. Not sure why I didn't expect this to be an issue when I can see that there are no available men my age in my parish or neighbouring parishes...I guess I assumed people would make the effort if there is a match. I do find it much more pleasant and natural to encounter men in person...what a difference...one can see the sparkle in the eyes...the smile, etc.

Oh well, this has been a new and interesting venture. I find the sharing interesting and when I am busy taking the dogs out or working in the yard and home, I find myself reflecting on some of the topics. In addition, I am thankful for the opportunity to help others through the prayer requests.

Sep 23rd 2012 new

I very much agree with you. Sad there are so few Catholic men that are mature and followup on their own words and promises to you. Talk is cheap.

Sep 23rd 2012 new

Very good article. Thanks for sharing. I agree that I was quite taken back by online dating. I haven't been on that long but was surprised that there are very few men that live near me and nobody seems to want to travel. I agree that meeting someone in person is much better. You can get a pretty good read on a person when you can see them and talk to them eye to eye. I'm not really sure what men are looking for.

Sep 23rd 2012 new

Fascinating, very insightful article.

Sep 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Kwaku-654846 said: ....all things being equal, marriages where the couple are in love (not to be mistaken with i...
(Quote) Kwaku-654846 said:

....all things being equal, marriages where the couple are in love (not to be mistaken with infatuation and pure physical attraction) are better.
I guess this is partly the perfectionism he's talking about: what about seeking those marriages which are just good or decent?

But, if a couple is not in love (once again, I don't mean infatuation and insane physical attraction), can a marriage ever work? If you love your spouse only as much as you love our sibling, is such a marriage not a marriage of convenience going through the motions? Is romance not that extra something that facilitates spousal love? As a basic question, how do you have unitive sex with your spouse if you don't find them physically attractive?


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Of course, I recognize that men operate differently when it comes to what...arouses them...and that visual is important for men while audible/emotional is more important for women...but haven't you heard the saying "do I love you because you are beautiful or are you beautiful because I love you?" To me, romance in marriage is of the 2nd. Each person sees the beauty of the other and chooses to love them each and every day, even if it's not convenient. Plus, as the Priest mentions...it's possible for an attraction to grow when there wasn't one initially.

You see, love is not a feeling...it is a choice.

Yes, the beginning of a relationship might find "butterflies" or one might "see stars" as the romance takes them on what is a usually enjoyable ride...but that cannot be what a relationship is built upon. Keeping that going throughout a relationship and many years of marriage would be ideal, but not always the case. Looks will always change (even in a world of plastic surgery, it's impossible to look identical at 73 as one did at 23). In a marriage, you aren't making love to a shell that looks good...the unitive sex has nothing to do with outside appearance but in the two becoming one. It's the souls uniting. And I also think it's strange to think that a guy would not be able to find ANYTHING pleasing about a woman's appearance...a smile, her eyes...if her "body" is not ideal to them. I mean, really? I don't know anybody so "ugly" that there's nothing attractive about them physically...and even if they seriously had no physically appealing qualities, surely they couldn't be 100% lacking in emotional, spiritual or intellectual attractiveness, too, right? And what if the spouse is drop-dead gorgeous to you but then something happens, such a sickness or injury that deforms them...are they no longer worthy of unitive sex because they aren't as attractive or are you only thinking about what they USED to look like when with them? I'm not being mean or accusatory or anything...just really posing food for thought.

Now, I'm also not going to say I think we should all go back to arranged marriages, but I do have to refute the idea that they may be successful only if the don't end in divorce. I, actually, know of several couples that had arranged marriages. None from this country, which I think may make a difference, but they all admited to being scared and hating they idea of not having a choice. But, they conciously made the choice to make the best out of it because they were stuck with each other and they all have LEARNED to love each other. One couple I met while volunteering in a retirement community...and the man just lost his wife to cancer after 52 years of life together in that marriage that began as an arrangement. When I met them, hearing him profess his love for her and talk about their life was so amazing. Here was a woman he was introduced to as his fiance as a teenager. She was lovely, but not a "bombshell" by any stretch of the imagination. But to him, she became the most beautiful woman in the world, especially while she was carrying their first child. He says he thinks that was when he first began to appreciate and respect her more than anything and value how beautiful she was in spirit first, before just finding her stunningly gorgeous. Then, as she aged, her body changed, she got wrinkled...then the cancer took her hair, her "glow' and her strength. And he loved her through it all and would still just light up in the biggest smile when she walked into the room, even as frail as she became. THAT is true love and so beautiful. And it began without that "romance" and it began with a choice.

There are going to be tough days in any marriage...if a romantic feeling and physical attraction are the only thing that bind you, it won't be any better than if there were no feelings at all. The two people must consciously decide to love each other regardless. As a wonderful and wise woman previously posted...even if they leave the cap off the toothpaste! lol

Sep 24th 2012 new

Thanks for responding to my question, Melissa! I had never heard [you are] beautiful because I love you before....I'll remember that!

Oh, I agree that looks change, and I've certainly thought of one spouse being disfigured before (by disease, accident, etc). And I also agree with you about something being beautiful about the spouse, be it eyes, etc.

I think the confusion may be coming in what the priest is referring to as romance or romantic love and what I am referring to as romance or romantic love.....

But, mind you, by "romantic love", I wasn't referring to just infatuation and physical and/or sexual attraction.
It is a well-known fact that a guy can be physically/sexually attracted to a woman without being (romantically) in love with her, and vice versa....and when this happens the relationship does not last. Infatuation always fades, whether the couple are in honest romantic love or not, and even if one party is the most beautiful woman in the world.
So I was alluding to something deeper with "romantic love", but don't quite know how to define it, except that there is quite a difference between merely liking a woman and being in love with her. Sometimes you (as a guy) like and respect a woman and may be very attracted to her, but you don't necessarily love her (romantically), although you obviously love her on a friendship or Christian level. Similarly, you can be in (romantic) love with a woman and be only decently attracted to her, but not necessarily find her insanely hot or think she's the most beautiful woman in the world. It's just that, in my experience, when there is romantic love, there is at least decent attraction.

Then, as she aged, her body changed, she got wrinkled...then the cancer took her hair, her "glow' and her strength. And he loved her through it all and would still just light up in the biggest smile when she walked into the room, even as frail as she became. THAT is true love and so beautiful. And it began without that "romance" and it began with a choice.
This is romantic love. The real thing. It may not have begun that way, but it developed along the way for sure.

The point I was trying to make with unitive sex is........ I've never been sexually attracted to a woman I wasn't in love with and/or didn't find physically attractive. I was wondering whether "two souls could unite" without some attraction at all.

The problem with arranged marriages is: how many of them develop to become true, romantic love? 50% (which would be the same rate as random chance)?
I would rather date/court a woman long enough to see some signs of true romantic love before marrying her. Afterall, is that not the whole point of dating and, especially, courtship?




(Quote) Melissa-836977 said: (Quote) Kwaku-654846 said: ....all things being equal, marriages whe...
(Quote) Melissa-836977 said:

Quote:
Kwaku-654846 said:

....all things being equal, marriages where the couple are in love (not to be mistaken with infatuation and pure physical attraction) are better.
I guess this is partly the perfectionism he's talking about: what about seeking those marriages which are just good or decent?

But, if a couple is not in love (once again, I don't mean infatuation and insane physical attraction), can a marriage ever work? If you love your spouse only as much as you love our sibling, is such a marriage not a marriage of convenience going through the motions? Is romance not that extra something that facilitates spousal love? As a basic question, how do you have unitive sex with your spouse if you don't find them physically attractive?




Of course, I recognize that men operate differently when it comes to what...arouses them...and that visual is important for men while audible/emotional is more important for women...but haven't you heard the saying "do I love you because you are beautiful or are you beautiful because I love you?" To me, romance in marriage is of the 2nd. Each person sees the beauty of the other and chooses to love them each and every day, even if it's not convenient. Plus, as the Priest mentions...it's possible for an attraction to grow when there wasn't one initially.

You see, love is not a feeling...it is a choice.

Yes, the beginning of a relationship might find "butterflies" or one might "see stars" as the romance takes them on what is a usually enjoyable ride...but that cannot be what a relationship is built upon. Keeping that going throughout a relationship and many years of marriage would be ideal, but not always the case. Looks will always change (even in a world of plastic surgery, it's impossible to look identical at 73 as one did at 23). In a marriage, you aren't making love to a shell that looks good...the unitive sex has nothing to do with outside appearance but in the two becoming one. It's the souls uniting. And I also think it's strange to think that a guy would not be able to find ANYTHING pleasing about a woman's appearance...a smile, her eyes...if her "body" is not ideal to them. I mean, really? I don't know anybody so "ugly" that there's nothing attractive about them physically...and even if they seriously had no physically appealing qualities, surely they couldn't be 100% lacking in emotional, spiritual or intellectual attractiveness, too, right? And what if the spouse is drop-dead gorgeous to you but then something happens, such a sickness or injury that deforms them...are they no longer worthy of unitive sex because they aren't as attractive or are you only thinking about what they USED to look like when with them? I'm not being mean or accusatory or anything...just really posing food for thought.

Now, I'm also not going to say I think we should all go back to arranged marriages, but I do have to refute the idea that they may be successful only if the don't end in divorce. I, actually, know of several couples that had arranged marriages. None from this country, which I think may make a difference, but they all admited to being scared and hating they idea of not having a choice. But, they conciously made the choice to make the best out of it because they were stuck with each other and they all have LEARNED to love each other. One couple I met while volunteering in a retirement community...and the man just lost his wife to cancer after 52 years of life together in that marriage that began as an arrangement. When I met them, hearing him profess his love for her and talk about their life was so amazing. Here was a woman he was introduced to as his fiance as a teenager. She was lovely, but not a "bombshell" by any stretch of the imagination. But to him, she became the most beautiful woman in the world, especially while she was carrying their first child. He says he thinks that was when he first began to appreciate and respect her more than anything and value how beautiful she was in spirit first, before just finding her stunningly gorgeous. Then, as she aged, her body changed, she got wrinkled...then the cancer took her hair, her "glow' and her strength. And he loved her through it all and would still just light up in the biggest smile when she walked into the room, even as frail as she became. THAT is true love and so beautiful. And it began without that "romance" and it began with a choice.

There are going to be tough days in any marriage...if a romantic feeling and physical attraction are the only thing that bind you, it won't be any better than if there were no feelings at all. The two people must consciously decide to love each other regardless. As a wonderful and wise woman previously posted...even if they leave the cap off the toothpaste! lol

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