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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Sep 20th 2012 new

Today during lunch, somebody brought up the topic of clergy abuse, and how see saw it as a "Catholic" problem. I was proud to stand up, and tell her that the insurance companies who underwrite policies have to settle over 260 cases a year of PROTESTANT / NON-DENOMINATIONAL ABUSE.

I felt like Ace Ventura when he asked Lois Einhorn: How did that feel? HUH?

YES!!!!!!!!

Sep 21st 2012 new

While that may be true, the answer to the situation is defintely not "Look, they did it too."

Sep 21st 2012 new

As far as I am concerned, people who criticize the Holy Catholic Church are blind, biased, and totally ingorant.

Sep 21st 2012 new

No doubt that is true, but it's a weak argument (really not an argument) if that's your response. When people say "look, the Catholic Church is bad because they had clerical child molesters", a reply of "well, the Protestants and secular school teachers abuse kids, too" is lame. This doesn't make people forgive the church.

The Church, and we as individual Catholics, have to own up to the fact that a lot of evil went on (and goes on) and that the heirarchy covered it up. That's the best way to win friends. Honesty, integrity, and not tit-for-tat accusations.

Sep 22nd 2012 new

(Quote) Daniel-634934 said: As far as I am concerned, people who criticize the Holy Catholic Church are blind, biased, and t...
(Quote) Daniel-634934 said:

As far as I am concerned, people who criticize the Holy Catholic Church are blind, biased, and totally ingorant.

--hide--
Gotta be careful with this one, Daniel.

First of all, the fact that there was abuse in other denominations isn't cause for gloating. We didn't enjoy the constant barrage of criticism and barbs being tossed at us; I'm sure no one else, no matter what faith group, enjoys the feeling of being stabbed either. An abusive situation is an abomination, no matter who the perpetrators are. It's apparent that many victims suffered long term effects from it. We need a Christian approach -- healing for ALL victims, and forgiveness for the acts of imperfect people.

It's an indication that we need to be stronger in our Faith, as do others. The Church, as an institution, has withstood 2000 years of scrutiny and criticism, and has remained solid despite gloomy periods of time in It's history. People aren't perfect -- no matter what faith they are in. In most recent times, it's the abuse situation.

It's a known fact that the Church had its share of failures with regard to the abuse problem, as have other institutions, both religious and secular. We might use Penn State University as an example that jumps out at us. This, Daniel, is by no means cause for celebration. Consider the damage done to the victims.

The Church (with all of its imperfect people) became open to criticism -- and a lot of it was justified. To accuse others of being blind, biased and totally ignorant isn't what the Church is about. We had it coming because more was expected from us. We are held to a higher standard, as we should be. While the abuse situation is complex, the basic premise is simple, and that is: it should never have happened.

No group of individuals, no matter now noble the cause is, is immune from having people involved in wrongdoing. It's another sign of the human condition. Catholics accept that, and where problems have been revealed, efforts should be made to minimize (hopefully eliminate) them.

All of us have work to do.

Sep 22nd 2012 new

I agree Ray. There is abuse everywhere and pointing fingers does not help. We must think of the victims first and foremost whoever and wherever they may be. Dealing with the issue honestly and openly is the way to handle this particular discussion with others. Hopefully if we are open and honest enough, this will never happen again.

Sep 22nd 2012 new

Daniel- Let's be careful. There is difference between what the Church teaches (always right) and how she carries it out (not always right!) It's okay to criticize the way the Church carries out her mission.

Having said that I agree you are right that it is important to point out that the problem affects everyone, not just the Catholic Church. I also think it's important to point out that the Church is actively following through on all of the safeguards that developed becuase of the scandal. Frankly the safeguards are extremely severe. I personally know several people, priests and seminarians, who have had a very flimsy complaint or allegation against them, who are treated the same way under the safegaurds as a convicted felon. I am not exaggerating; those are the words of a supervising private investigator, that he has never does this with a person under merely under an allegation.

So two points: The problem is every where and the Church is agressively attacking the problem.



Sep 22nd 2012 new

Whoa!!!!!!!!!

Hold on guys. The Holy Catholic Church is NOT the great white devil, and neither am I.

I am so sick of how smug people are when they bring the topic up, and about the amount of effort given by the secular media to put us down. I am one those types who say don't criticize me (or my Church) if you are not squeaky clean.

I will NEVER stick my head in the sand or apologize for defending my faith.

Sep 22nd 2012 new

(Quote) Daniel-634934 said: Whoa!!!!!!!!! Hold on guys. The Holy Catholic Church is NOT the great white devil, and ne...
(Quote) Daniel-634934 said:

Whoa!!!!!!!!!

Hold on guys. The Holy Catholic Church is NOT the great white devil, and neither am I.

I am so sick of how smug people are when they bring the topic up, and about the amount of effort given by the secular media to put us down. I am one those types who say don't criticize me (or my Church) if you are not squeaky clean.

I will NEVER stick my head in the sand or apologize for defending my faith.

--hide--


I agree Daniel. I didn't take your post to mean you were rejoicing in the fact that abuse takes places in other denominations. I felt that you were saying how interesting it is that EVERYONE knows about the abuse that occurs in the Catholic Church BECAUSE our media jumps on it right away and reports it nationally. BUT, when there is abuse in other denominations, it is rarely (ever?) reported...on national news.


Sort of like how we heard all about Palin and McCain, yet there are still many, many secrets about Obama. It's what our secular media wants us to know about.


So, good for you Daniel. Way to let someone know that even though abuse is terrible in any form, in any place, it's important for people to know it's happening in other places, though, they aren't aware of it. Otherwise, people will continue to have a skewed view of our Church.

Sep 24th 2012 new

(Quote) Wendy-387654 said: I agree Daniel. I didn't take your post to mean you were rejoicing in the fact t...
(Quote) Wendy-387654 said:


I agree Daniel. I didn't take your post to mean you were rejoicing in the fact that abuse takes places in other denominations. I felt that you were saying how interesting it is that EVERYONE knows about the abuse that occurs in the Catholic Church BECAUSE our media jumps on it right away and reports it nationally. BUT, when there is abuse in other denominations, it is rarely (ever?) reported...on national news.


Sort of like how we heard all about Palin and McCain, yet there are still many, many secrets about Obama. It's what our secular media wants us to know about.


So, good for you Daniel. Way to let someone know that even though abuse is terrible in any form, in any place, it's important for people to know it's happening in other places, though, they aren't aware of it. Otherwise, people will continue to have a skewed view of our Church.

--hide--


Finally!

Somebody who read my post for what it really was.

Thank you Wendy!

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