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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

10/11/2012 new
(Quote) Charles-512043 said: People who don't live under democracy may long for what they think democracy is, but that's neve...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

People who don't live under democracy may long for what they think democracy is, but that's never what democracy actually is in practice. The two viable candidates that we have right now agree on 90+% of the substantive issues, and that's probably underestimating it. They're both pro-war, they're both pro-corporate bailouts, they're both pro-economic intervention, they're both pro-welfare, they both plan to continue deficit spending, etc, etc. When they actually DO disagree, the disagreements are merely cosmetic rather than philosophical. It's a bit of a stretch to call this election a "choice". The state has already won the election.
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Charles, if you are ready to turn over all of your freedoms to the United Nations and the Bilderbergers and the CFR and the globalist bankers, they would be very happy to hear that. You can fight the fight where you stand, or you can just throw your hands up and quit. All of the aforementioned are thrilled to hear you talk like that, because that will make it that much easier for them to defeat your generation.

By the way, you may never have been taught this in any of your school classes, but the United States is a republic as referenced in the words of the Pledge of Allegiance. You do know the Pledge of Allegiance, right? "... and the REPUBLIC for which is stands..." A republic is a nation founded on laws, foremost among those laws is that all fundamental rights come from God. The Bill of Rights was highly contested by the Founding Fathers, not because they disagreed with the amendments themselves, but whether or not they even needed to be stated at all. These 10 amendments (there were originally a couple more) were so fundamental to the beliefs of our founders that many of them thought that they did not need to be stated because they were so obvious. But some of the founders wisely persisted in having these amendments added to Madison's Constitution just in case people later on didn't know for sure what their rights were. These rights are from God, not from any government. They are inalienable. That means that they cannot either by given or taken away by any man. The amendments (Bill of Rights) do not grant rights to Americans; they protect those rights that are granted to us by God alone. In a democracy, it isn't about laws; it is about the rule of the mob. Democracy is one step closer to socialism, which is one step closer to communism. This is the road that your country is on now. It may not matter to you now, but it will, and if you have not awoken to your responsibilities as a free man by that time, it may well be too late.
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10/11/2012 new
(Quote) Wendy-387654 said: ... actively increasing abortions is merely a cosmetic issue ??? ...wanting to cease our...
(Quote) Wendy-387654 said:




... actively increasing abortions is merely a cosmetic issue ??? ...wanting to cease our religious liberties is merely a cosmetic issue ???

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Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape and incest. So he's already conceded that it is in some cases it is ok for a woman and her doctor to murder an infant. Like I said, their differences are in degree, not in principle.
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10/11/2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape and incest. So he's already conceded that it is...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape and incest. So he's already conceded that it is in some cases it is ok for a woman and her doctor to murder an infant. Like I said, their differences are in degree, not in principle.
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So, if you've given up, Charles, (because of your viewpoint which I strongly disagree with), then why do you continue to choose to live in this country?

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10/11/2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape and incest. So he's already conceded that it is...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape and incest. So he's already conceded that it is in some cases it is ok for a woman and her doctor to murder an infant. Like I said, their differences are in degree, not in principle.
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Um, actively increasing funds for abortions AND creating a plan to take away America's religious liberties vs. being pro-choice in cases of rape and incest is equal in your mind?


What about other non-negotiable issues of our faith?


Have you see the document listing/comparing Romney and Obama in the catholicvote thread?

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10/11/2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape and incest. So he's already conceded that it is...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape and incest. So he's already conceded that it is in some cases it is ok for a woman and her doctor to murder an infant. Like I said, their differences are in degree, not in principle.
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MOst importantly, he does not believe in taking my money to fund that abortion as Obama increasingly does.....big, big difference....because one is hostile torwards my beliefs and violating my conscience the other is not.

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10/11/2012 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: (Quote) Charles-512043 said: Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape ...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
Charles-512043 said:

Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape and incest. So he's already conceded that it is in some cases it is ok for a woman and her doctor to murder an infant. Like I said, their differences are in degree, not in principle.




MOst importantly, he does not believe in taking my money to fund that abortion as Obama increasingly does.....big, big difference....because one is hostile torwards my beliefs and violating my conscience the other is not.

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....another big difference will be their economic policies...Romney is a frugal business man....I expect to see that in him as president. Obama didn't have any real experience to begin with.

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10/11/2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: Like I said, their differences are in degree, not in principle.
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

Like I said, their differences are in degree, not in principle.
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From a document posted in the catholicvote thread:

Obama on life:

Supports Roe v. Wade and affirms, “I remain committed to protecting a woman’s right to choose.” (Source: White House Press Statement)

As part of his healthcare legislation, almost every health insurance plan will be required to cover sterilizations and contraception–including birth control pills that can cause abortions–with no co-pay. (Source: US Department Health & Human Services)

Overturned a law that prevented the government from giving aid to international family planning groups. Now our government can pay for people’s contraception (including abortifacients) overseas as well. (Source: White House Executive Order)

His campaign boasts that he “stood up to Republicans trying to roll back a woman’s right to choose and defund Planned Parenthood.” He praises Planned Parenthood and refuses to cut government funding ($487 million in 2012) for the organization. Planned Parenthood performs on average 900 abortions per day. (Source: Huffington Post)

In the Senate, he opposed a pro-life bill designed to prevent partial-birth abortions. (Source: IL General Assembly)

Ended a ban on using taxpayer money to fund embryonic stem cell research, which kills human embryos. (Source: White House Executive Order)

Eliminated conscience protections for medical workers who morally object to dispensing the morning-after pill (which is designed to destroy embryos). Recipients of federal money can now discriminate against these workers. (Source: Catholic News Agency)

Promises to veto legislation that would prevent taxpayer funding of abortion.(Source: LifeNews.com)

Obama is endorsed by pro-choice groups NARAL and Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood spent $1.4 million on an ad campaign for Obama. (Source: Planned Parenthood)

Romney on life:

Believes abortions should be limited to only cases of rape or incest or to save the mother’s life. (Source: CBS News)

Supports overturning Roe v. Wade and promises to appoint Supreme Court Justices who are committed to fair interpretation of the Constitution (Source: Life News)

Supports the Hyde Amendment, which bars using federal tax revenue to pay for abortions (Source: Mitt Romney)

Promises to support efforts to eliminate federal funding for Planned Parenthood (Source: Huffington Post)

Promises to support the Mexico City Policy, which will bar NGOs that receive federal funding from promoting or performing abortions as a method of family planning in other countries. (Source: Mitt Romney)

Promises to advocate for and support legislation that will make it illegal to destroy unborn children who are developmentally capable of feeling pain (Source: Life News)

He says, “If I have the opportunity to serve as our nation’s next president, I commit to doing everything in my power to cultivate, promote, and support a culture of life in America.” (Source: Mitt Romney)

As governor of Massachusetts, he vetoed a bill that would have allowed girls of any age to obtain emergency contraceptive pills (which are designed to destroy embryos) without parental consent (Source: Mitt Romney)

As governor of Massachusetts, he opposed legislation that would allow the creation of human embryos for the purpose of stem cell research, which would result directly in the destruction of those embryos (Source: Romney at NRLC)

Obama on marriage:

Supports homosexual “marriage” (Source: CNN Politics) Believes the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) should be repealed (Source: The Atlantic – Wire)

Decided with the Justice Department that they would not defend DOMA in new cases (Source: Dept. of Justice – Press Release 2/23/11)

Extended to same-sex partners of federal employees many of the benefits that spouses of federal employees enjoy and supports legislation that would grant same-sex partners of federal employees exactly the same benefits as spouses (Source: Politico & OPM Rule)

Required any hospital receiving federal funds to allow visitation rights for same-sex partners (Source: Washington Post)

Supports the Respect for Marriage Act, which requires all states to recognize same-sex “marriages” performed in other states, which would effectively make homosexual “marriage” legal–even as he emphasizes his belief that the question of same-sex “marriage” should be decided by individual states. (Source: Whitehouse.gov – Blog & “Respect Marriage Act”)

Romney on marriage:

Romney’s campaign page says, “Marriage is more than a personally rewarding social custom. It is also critical for the well-being of a civilization. That is why it is so important to preserve traditional marriage – the joining together of one man and one woman.” (Source: MittRomney.com)

Opposes civil unions that resemble marriage (Source: USA Today)

Favors some domestic partnership benefits but believes that states should decide which of these benefits are appropriate. (Source: Real Clear Politics – with Video)

Promises to appoint an Attorney General who will defend DOMA (Source: MittRomney.com) Promises to champion a new amendment to the Constitution that will define marriage as a union of one man and one woman. (Source: National Review Online & MittRomney.com)

Obama on religious liberty:

Obama’s Affordable Care Act will require most employers to purchase insurance that covers abortions, sterilizations, and contraception with no co-pay, even though many of those employers–including Catholic schools, hospitals, and dioceses as well as individual business owners and people of many different faiths–object to paying for such insurance plans on religious grounds. (Source: The Weekly Standard)

Obama’s Equal Employment Opportunity Commission claimed the power to compel a church to rehire a former employee to a teaching position. The case (Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church v. EEOC) went to the Supreme Court, which ruled unanimously in favor of the church. The decision reads, “authority to select and control who will minister to the faithful is the church’s alone.” (Source: Wall Street Journal Online)

Obama’s HHS would not renew funding to the Migration and Refugee Services (MRS), which provides services to refugees, migrating children, and human trafficking victims, because MRS, a Catholic organization, refused to provide or refer for abortions or contraception. (Source: National Catholic Register)

Romney on religious liberty

Romney writes, “If I am elected President, on day one of my administration I will issue an executive order directing my Secretary of Health and Human Services to issue a waiver from its requirements to all 50 states.” This would allow states to not force employers to purchase insurance that fully covers abortions, contraception, and sterilization, limiting the effects of Obama’s healthcare legislation while he works to repeal it entirely. (Source: Washington Examiner – OpEd)

Supported the Hosanna-Tabor v. EEOC decision that affirmed the right of churches to make their own hiring decisions. (Source: ABC News)

Defended the right of Catholic Charities of Boston to decide on its own whether it would allow same-sex couples to adopt children in its care. (Source: Fox News)

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10/11/2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape and incest. So he's already conceded that it is...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

Mitt Romney is pro-choice in cases of rape and incest. So he's already conceded that it is in some cases it is ok for a woman and her doctor to murder an infant. Like I said, their differences are in degree, not in principle.
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Charles,

I appreciate your purist, fanatical, and morally correct views on issues taken in isolation.

But, perhaps unfortunately, we do not have Jesus Christ Himself running for President or for any other office at the present time. Perhaps, during the Second Coming this might occur. Then we can see who boos God!

But, anyway, since we have to live in the real world, with flawed citizens and equally flawed leaders as 100% of the pool from whom to choose, we might as well admit we're not going to fully agree with anyone.

That said, if you follow me so far, I say let's separate those who come closest to being able to run the Country the way we want and separate them from the Marxist, Socialist, Leftist, Statist, Maoist, Eugenicists. Then, among those who are at least not leftist secular humanists, but who actually believe in Christ, free will, liberty and self reliance, let's pick the toughest, hardest hitting, meanest, most effective, no bullsh** cat of that bunch and elect him. This is a sort of civilized warfare, and we need a General in Chief who can take on the worse guys and beat 'em. Obama and his Chicago Democratic Crowd are mean badasses and will give no quarter. It will take someone equally tough to turn them out. I sure don't want Father "Tom" running the Country, even if I may want him at my deathbed. I want a leader who will go out and kick ass for the good guys. If he isn't perfect, OK, I for one can live with that. I'm not perfect either!

With that in mind, I think one can choose one of the candidates (who has a chance) over the other in the vast majority of races. Certainly, at the Presidential level it is a no brainer. Meanwhile, if you will help keep the Country from become Marxist before the next election, you can work to increase support for the Libertarian cause. But becoming more Marxist under Obummer will not help your cause. Clearly, Romney will do less damage. Don't you think?

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10/11/2012 new
(Quote) Charles-512043 said: So he's already conceded that it is in some cases it is ok for a woman and her doctor to murder an...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said: So he's already conceded that it is in some cases it is ok for a woman and her doctor to murder an infant. Like I said, their differences are in degree, not in principle.
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Sure you want to say that? Definitely applies to your Ron Paul.

Ron Paul conceded that in some cases it's ok for a woman and her doctor to murder an infant.

But for Ron Paul...it's for a much more hideous reason...it's ok for sex selection!!!

"A bill to outlaw abortions based on a child's gender received a strong majority of votes in the U.S. House of Representatives Thursday but failed to gain the two-thirds margin of support needed for passage.

The House voted 246-168 in favor of H.R. 3541, known as the Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act (PRENDA). 226 Republicans and 20 Democrats (Altmire, Barrow, Boren, Cooper, Costello, Critz, Cuellar, Donnelly, Garamendi, Holden, Kissell, Lipinksi, Lynch, Matheson, McIntyre, Peterson, Rahall, Reyes, Ross of AR, and Shuler) voted yea; while 161 Democrats and seven Republicans (Amash, Bass of NH, Bono Mack, Dold, Hanna, Hayworth, and Paul) voted no.

www.lifesitenews.com

So, by your standards ("differences in degree but not in principle") Mitt Romney's position is more virtuous than Ron Paul's.

And by my standards...it sure is!

You can't ever vote for Ron Paul if you stay true to your own litmus test.
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10/11/2012 new

Cathy you rock. Keep them on their toes!

Number 4 is the biggest reason of all. Dress up like Ayn Rand for Halloween!

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