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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: Read why Ron Paul voted the way he did on that bill, rather than relying on hit-and-run mis-ch...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

Read why Ron Paul voted the way he did on that bill, rather than relying on hit-and-run mis-characterizations.

paul.house.gov
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No hit & run, Charles. But, as much as I approve of Ron Paul's personal stance against abortion, his objection to that bill on the grounds he stated were contrary to the logic of the founding fathers who wrote the constitution. Fact is, natural law, on which the founding fathers formed the moral basis of our constitution, was the basis for laws against abortion in England and in the United States during the revolution and beyond. Read up on Blackstone and Natural law the next time you want to defend Ron Paul's staunch adherence to constitutional interpretation. Infact, Ron Paul is off the mark in this case.

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Oct 12th 2012 new
(Quote) ED-20630 said: With your current attitude, you should probably just give up on everything right now. Nothing approaching perfecti...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

With your current attitude, you should probably just give up on everything right now. Nothing approaching perfection (concerning politics) will ever be achieve on this earth until the end of time. Flawed human beings will ALWAYS achieve flawed results.




With your attitude, perhaps the motto for the rest of your life will be.... "Why even bother. The battle is lost." .... (as taken from the last paragraph of your previous message. This is a pathetically passive approach to life. I hope that you change, because this will certainly not be a successful path.




Ed

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Nowhere did I say the battle is lost or that we should stop fighting. I'm saying choose your battles wisely.
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Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: Read why Ron Paul voted the way he did on that bill, rather than relying on hit-and-run mis-ch...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

Read why Ron Paul voted the way he did on that bill, rather than relying on hit-and-run mis-characterizations.

paul.house.gov
--hide--


sorry Ron Paul lost. sorry


Stages of grief:


Denial (think you might still revert back to this stage sometimes)

Bargaining (see shades of you being here at times)

Anger (yup)

Despair/Depression (wouldn't know about this one)

Acceptance ( Praying you make it here before November 6th, 2012)


hug hug hug The Catholic Church needs your vote Charles!! knight-errant



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Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: Nowhere did I say the battle is lost or that we should stop fighting. I'm saying choose yo...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

Nowhere did I say the battle is lost or that we should stop fighting. I'm saying choose your battles wisely.
--hide--



What wisdom is there in a wasted vote? Or forfeiting your right to vote?

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Oct 12th 2012 new
(Quote) Tom-169708 said: No hit & run, Charles. But, as much as I approve of Ron Paul's personal stance against aborti...
(Quote) Tom-169708 said:




No hit & run, Charles. But, as much as I approve of Ron Paul's personal stance against abortion, his objection to that bill on the grounds he stated were contrary to the logic of the founding fathers who wrote the constitution. Fact is, natural law, on which the founding fathers formed the moral basis of our constitution, was the basis for laws against abortion in England and in the United States during the revolution and beyond. Read up on Blackstone and Natural law the next time you want to defend Ron Paul's staunch adherence to constitutional interpretation. Infact, Ron Paul is off the mark in this case.

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Natural law has nothing to say about political jurisdiction of law, so his stance certainly wasn't in conflict with natural law. Also, the Constitution says nothing about the jurisdiction of abortion, so his stance certainly wasn't at odds with the Constitution either.

If abortion were handled at the state rather than federal level, it would probably currently be outlawed in several states. At present, it's legalized country-wide. Pragmatically, if his stance was currently followed, abortion would be outlawed throughout more of the country than it is now.

Natural law is one thing, prudential judgements on how to bring about an adherence to natural law is quite another.
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Oct 12th 2012 new

If your candidate loses does that mean your vote is wasted?

(Quote) Tom-169708 said: What wisdom is there in a wasted vote? Or forfeiting your right to vote?
(Quote) Tom-169708 said:




What wisdom is there in a wasted vote? Or forfeiting your right to vote?

--hide--

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Oct 12th 2012 new
(Quote) Matt-61677 said: If your candidate loses does that mean your vote is wasted?
(Quote) Matt-61677 said:

If your candidate loses does that mean your vote is wasted?





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rolling eyes That certainly doesn't "undo" the fact that you, in fact, fulfilled your civil and moral responsibility.

You did your best...and left the result to God.
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Oct 12th 2012 new

You have retreated from the battle because you have determined that you cannot achieve a result close to your ideal Utopian perfection. There is nothing "wise" about that. Don't try to convince/fool yourself or others that such a desicion is "wise". It is not. It is what quitters do.



Would a starving man refuse 1/8 or 1/4 loaf because he is not offered a full loaf? No. Such a decision would be stupid and irrational.


Would a starving man refuse a stale or slightly moldy loaf? No. Such a decision would be stupid and irrational.


Just my opinion.


Ed

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Oct 12th 2012 new

Ok, so I came across as focusing on getting a perfect candidate to vote for... I just want one who doesnt MAJORLY conflict with my belief system, and hold undefendable beliefs like a Mormon. You can argue that they believe in a lot of good things, but when their faith branched off with such a unwholesome foundation as it did, it corrupts the whole tree.

If Obama and Romney switched faiths it would be a lot easier for me to cast a vote.

Do you think Ive never voted for a president before? I have, and I will continue to, but this election is a moral quagmire for me, like many have said Obama is not an option, but what I dont grasp is how a flip flopping Mormon like Romney is someone worth placing my faith, and vote in. I am obviously in a minority, and its probably because I overthink things, and I am more than willing to admit I may be wrong, but I cant justify a vote.


You say if I dont vote its a vote for Obama, and I am condemned, because I was never going to vote for Obama in the first place. I feel bad that either of these men will be our next president, but Id feel worse placing myself in support for them in any way.

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Oct 12th 2012 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: You have retreated from the battle because you have determined that you cannot achieve a result close...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

You have retreated from the battle because you have determined that you cannot achieve a result close to your ideal Utopian perfection. There is nothing "wise" about that. Don't try to convince/fool yourself or others that such a desicion is "wise". It is not. It is what quitters do.

Would a starving man refuse 1/8 or 1/4 loaf because he is not offered a full loaf? No. Such a decision would be stupid and irrational.
Would a starving man refuse a stale or slightly moldy loaf? No. Such a decision would be stupid and irrational.
Just my opinion.
Ed

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The problem is that neither, common sense, rational arguments or anything else will change the mind of people with the mind set you are addressing.

Any rational person observing Biden's actions last night would have concluded he was a clown. But the true believers think he did a magnificent job.

Any rational person would see the value of your arguments, but the TRUE BELIEVERS, will take what they consider the high moral ground and ignore rationality. And that despite the fact that Pope John Paul II addressed this very type of situation and said that it was a person's moral obligation to follow the dictates of your arguments.

Its like the guy who refuses to fire the ASHCAN that could sink the sub because he is against war. He sinks with his torpedoed ship just like all the others who urged him to fire away at the sub.

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