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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

10/19/2012 new

(Quote) Lina-796057 said: Thomas, I have come across a number of posts in the past year which describe the poster's conf...
(Quote) Lina-796057 said:

Thomas, I have come across a number of posts in the past year which describe the poster's confusion about how to answer some of the faith questions on their profile. And I've read a number of threads where this topic (the confusion between practice and belief, the very thing Jerry stated) has been mentioned. The questions are not irrelevant, Thomas. They are a stepping stone or guide in this invitation of getting to know another person. The questions may be straightforward, but people's perspectives are not all the same, so their interpretation of a few words might vary from another person's readings of those few words. A person's conscience can play a factor in how he responds, say, to the question on premarital sex. He might understand that that is forbidden according to the teachings of our Church, but he also knows that he has sinned in that regard in the past. His past behavior showed that he did not accept that teaching, and the guilt he might feel over that could influence the answer he gives. If we care enough to pursue getting to know a person for other reasons, we can certainly ask them about how they answered the faith questions so that we more clearly see that person, rather than going by assumptions. A discussion on the question & answer might lead to growth on both sides of the table, which would be a very good thing, I would think.

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I have to Lina, but I have never seen anyone say they have be confused about the question . Only that some people can be confused or were and I have never seen any of them on the boards. Only people who say they might think this way. The reason I say this is because every time someone attacks someone giving and example about the Faith that is true, When I look at there profile they are always people that don't answer yes to all seven of them. I disagree and did not say they are not worth talking to, But it seems to me on here, they always get to the who are you do judge me . When you try and tell them what the Church teaches.

10/19/2012 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: So if something doesn't exist in the realm of your personal experience it doesn't...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

So if something doesn't exist in the realm of your personal experience it doesn't exist?

Regardless of how obviously worded the questions may seem, it's not uncommon for people to effectively answer a question that isn't being asked. This has been a steady pattern for the 8+ years I've been on CM, so there's no reason to suspect it's suddenly going to change.

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Jerry. I did not want to turn this into a 7/7 thread. What I meant in my post was that every time I see someone say that who are you to tell me or what makes you and expert on Catholic teaching. When all someone on here does is to put on a link to facts about the church. It's in my experience that when I look at that person who posted this, on there profile, it is always someone who does not answer yes to all seven question.This was not about if people understand them. You and Lina turn it into that and if we disagree on this then thats that then.

10/19/2012 new

(Quote) Lina-796057 said: You speak of justice. There is also mercy. We do not deserve God's forgiveness, but He...
(Quote) Lina-796057 said:

You speak of justice. There is also mercy.

We do not deserve God's forgiveness, but He gives it freely. And He sacrificed His Son for your sake and mine, before we committed our first sin, in anticipation of our weaknesses, so that He not lose us.

You mentioned about borrowing money in your second paragraph. When I spoke of forgiveness, I spoke of my responsibility as victim, not as transgressor. If I were the transgressor, I should not expect forgiveness without some action on my part. But if I am the victim, I can choose to forgive (silently, in my heart, or even vocally) the transgressor FOR MY OWN SAKE, for the freedom that forgiveness gives ME--the release from bitterness and negativity, the ability to follow Jesus' example and LOVE. There is haughtiness in holding on to grudges or whatever it might be called when forgiveness hasn't happened.

Perhaps it is as you say that there is no "justice" between two people when one does not admit an offense. But it is very possible to forgive someone who doesn't wish to be forgiven, just as you can love someone who really doesn't want your love. It is a transcendence. It is Grace.

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With-holding forgiveness is not the same thing as holding a grudge. If you truly forgive a person, then you have no problem resuming your relationship with him. For example, if your husband tries to murder you, and you forgive him, you ought to have no problem resuming the duties of conjugal life in its full with him. If you have a problem with that, then you haven't forgiven him. or If your husband commits adultery and you forgive him, you ought to have no problems resuming the duties of conjugal life in its full with him. If you have a problem with that, then you haven't forgiven him.

Holding a grudge is an irrational obstinacy by which one refuses forgiveness for any reason.

Forgiveness is a two-headed arrow. It's just not there without both sides coming together.

10/19/2012 new

(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: Jerry. I did not want to turn this into a 7/7 thread. What I meant in my post was that every tim...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

Jerry. I did not want to turn this into a 7/7 thread. What I meant in my post was that every time I see someone say that who are you to tell me or what makes you and expert on Catholic teaching. When all someone on here does is to put on a link to facts about the church. It's in my experience that when I look at that person who posted this, on there profile, it is always someone who does not answer yes to all seven question.This was not about if people understand them. You and Lina turn it into that and if we disagree on this then thats that then.

--hide--

Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it...

10/20/2012 new
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: It is arrogance to assume someone does not practice or know their ...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: It is arrogance to assume someone does not practice or know their faith. Voting for Obama does not prove one does not practice their faith. I am pro life as well. I would rather come up with a social design to assist those who will be and are pregnant for whatever reason it happened....rape, etc. I am willing to design a socialist program to help these individuals throughout their life, if abortion is made illegal. And that means everyone in society must assist these people with your time, money, resources, etc. And that also means that we may have to help them for their entire lifetime...small price to pay if we're talking about saving unborn lives.



The socialist doctrine you're espousing is opposed to the Catholic doctrine called subsidiarity.

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1. (Christianity / Roman Catholic Church) (in the Roman Catholic Church) a principle of social doctrine that all social bodies exist for the sake of the individual so that what individuals are able to do, society should not take over, and what small societies can do, larger societies should not take over 2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in political systems) the principle of devolving decisions to the lowest practical level Some of these individuals will be incapable of resolving their situations, especially Someone who is brutally raped and injured. Their mental status will require society to assist them on their road to recovery. Save the unborn, and also except the burden of helping those who will be incapable of helping themselves. How many people boast their war on saving the unborn, but stop short of saying I will provide the monies, time, resources to help those people who will be incapable of making rationale decisions ie. rape victims. Society assists the mentally challenged, ie downs syndrome, etc. is that against the doctrine as well?
10/20/2012 new
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: (Quote) Jerry-74383 said: So if something doesn't exist in the realm of yo...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

Quote:
Jerry-74383 said:

So if something doesn't exist in the realm of your personal experience it doesn't exist?

Regardless of how obviously worded the questions may seem, it's not uncommon for people to effectively answer a question that isn't being asked. This has been a steady pattern for the 8+ years I've been on CM, so there's no reason to suspect it's suddenly going to change.


Jerry. I did not want to turn this into a 7/7 thread. What I meant in my post was that every time I see someone say that who are you to tell me or what makes you and expert on Catholic teaching. When all someone on here does is to put on a link to facts about the church. It's in my experience that when I look at that person who postede this, on there profile, it is always someone who does not answer yes to all seven question.This was not about if people understand them. You and Lina turn it into that and if we disagree on this then thats that then.

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7/7. This needs to be interpreted cautiously. If someone is not 7/7, does not mean what you have stated. I am 6/7 ....only because contraception is used to prevent bleeding to death from a uterine fibroid. Erode. Which is accepted by the church, since it is used for a medical issue.
10/20/2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: 7/7. This needs to be interpreted cautiously. If someone is not 7/7, does not mean what you have stated....
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: 7/7. This needs to be interpreted cautiously. If someone is not 7/7, does not mean what you have stated. I am 6/7 ....only because contraception is used to prevent bleeding to death from a uterine fibroid. Erode. Which is accepted by the church, since it is used for a medical issue.
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Since your use is not for the purpose of Contraception Answering that question in the negative is an incorrect understanding of the question.

The Church's position on Contraception speaks to the use of Contraception specifically to prevent Conception.

10/20/2012 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: (Quote) Thomas-699657 said: Well when someone does not agree with a doctrine of the faith...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Quote:
Thomas-699657 said:

Well when someone does not agree with a doctrine of the faith in there profile, you can by reason know they don't follow the faith in all.


No you can't.

First, those who don't accept a doctrine may follow it, either out of submission despite their disagreement, or simply for lack of opportunity.

Second, as has been pointed out many times, there are a variety of reasons people answer 'No' to the faith questions, especially the one on premarital sex, that have nothing to do with their current belief or practice. The most common is that they violated the teaching in the past and feel that they would be misleading others if they answer 'Yes' even though they now accept the teaching and have no intention of violating it.

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Jerry is correct. I know that I can put 7/7 on my profile, but I choose to answer no to contraception, because I did not want anyone think I was deceiving them when they found out I am on contraception, to prevent bleeding to death from a fibroid, a medical issue. Keep your mind and heart open when reading profiles. You may skip over the one that God has in mind for you. Peace and love to you all.
10/20/2012 new
(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: 7/7. This needs to be interpreted cautiously. If someone is not 7/7, ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: 7/7. This needs to be interpreted cautiously. If someone is not 7/7, does not mean what you have stated. I am 6/7 ....only because contraception is used to prevent bleeding to death from a uterine fibroid. Erode. Which is accepted by the church, since it is used for a medical issue.

Since your use is not for the purpose of Contraception Answering that question in the negative is an incorrect understanding of the question.

The Church's position on Contraception speaks to the use of Contraception specifically to prevent Conception.

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I'm aware of that Paul. Thank you. I just did not want to surprise anyone when they found out I was on contraception. I dislike it a lot, but the only other option is a horrific surgery.
10/20/2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: 1. (Christianity / Roman Catholic Church) (in the Roman Catholic Church) a principle of social doctrine ...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: 1. (Christianity / Roman Catholic Church) (in the Roman Catholic Church) a principle of social doctrine that all social bodies exist for the sake of the individual so that what individuals are able to do, society should not take over, and what small societies can do, larger societies should not take over 2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in political systems) the principle of devolving decisions to the lowest practical level Some of these individuals will be incapable of resolving their situations, especially Someone who is brutally raped and injured. Their mental status will require society to assist them on their road to recovery. Save the unborn, and also except the burden of helping those who will be incapable of helping themselves. How many people boast their war on saving the unborn, but stop short of saying I will provide the monies, time, resources to help those people who will be incapable of making rationale decisions ie. rape victims. Society assists the mentally challenged, ie downs syndrome, etc. is that against the doctrine as well?
--hide--


I don't know why you conclude that if an individual woman needs support the entirety of society must support her. If she is unmarried that falls to her father's family. If she is married, it falls to her husband's family. If she is orphaned and destitute, it then falls to the Church. I provide for the material support of the Church so that the Church can do these things. I have no duty to support a woman directly who is basically down on her luck and pregnant , otherwise such direct support could not be called alms (alms are a free gift, not a civic duty). Since giving support to this non-familial woman would be a mercy, the government cannot morally demand that people who are not the woman's family support her. That is how subsidiarity works.

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