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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Oct 20th 2012 new
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: I'm aware of that Paul. Thank you. I just did not want to surprise anyone when they found out I was on contr...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: I'm aware of that Paul. Thank you. I just did not want to surprise anyone when they found out I was on contraception. I dislike it a lot, but the only other option is a horrific surgery.
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The question is about accepting the Church's Teaching on contraception. You do. Using it for a medical condition doesn't apply to the question. Your medical condition is nobody's business until you make it their business. Other medical treatments/conditions can lead to reduced fertility/infertility, too. If you met a man in real life, that wouldn't be his business until you chose to share that with him, anyway. Just wanted to share my thoughts. Whatever you choose to do is best. That's your business, too.
Oct 20th 2012 new
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: 1. (Christianity / Roman Catholic Church) (in the Roman Catholic C...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: 1. (Christianity / Roman Catholic Church) (in the Roman Catholic Church) a principle of social doctrine that all social bodies exist for the sake of the individual so that what individuals are able to do, society should not take over, and what small societies can do, larger societies should not take over 2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in political systems) the principle of devolving decisions to the lowest practical level Some of these individuals will be incapable of resolving their situations, especially Someone who is brutally raped and injured. Their mental status will require society to assist them on their road to recovery. Save the unborn, and also except the burden of helping those who will be incapable of helping themselves. How many people boast their war on saving the unborn, but stop short of saying I will provide the monies, time, resources to help those people who will be incapable of making rationale decisions ie. rape victims. Society assists the mentally challenged, ie downs syndrome, etc. is that against the doctrine as well?



I don't know why you conclude that if an individual woman needs support the entirety of society must support her. If she is unmarried that falls to her father's family. If she is married, it falls to her husband's family. If she is orphaned and destitute, it then falls to the Church. I provide for the material support of the Church so that the Church can do these things. I have no duty to support a woman directly who is basically down on her luck and pregnant , otherwise such direct support could not be called alms (alms are a free gift, not a civic duty). Since giving support to this non-familial woman would be a mercy, the government cannot morally demand that people who are not the woman's family support her. That is how subsidiarity works.

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I am not saying the government has to support someone down on their luck. I am saying people cannot legally end abortion and walk away from those who will need assistance. There will be even greater societal ramifications if a rape victim is asked to go it alone. We, as a group of people, need to assist and help these individuals. The group of people may be defined as a " church". And I would never state that a rape victim is someone who is " down on their luck."
Oct 20th 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: I am not saying the government has to support someone down on their luck. I am saying people cannot lega...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: I am not saying the government has to support someone down on their luck. I am saying people cannot legally end abortion and walk away from those who will need assistance. There will be even greater societal ramifications if a rape victim is asked to go it alone. We, as a group of people, need to assist and help these individuals. The group of people may be defined as a " church". And I would never state that a rape victim is someone who is " down on their luck."
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I am not trying to be calloused here, but by and far most women who qualify as actual rape victims are not orphans. They have families who can support them. This is not the societal problem you are making it be. The government, or saecular society beyond the family, should not have to support these women even if they were raped. If these women who were raped can't bear being subject to familial authority, they should go to the Catholic Church for support.

No woman who was raped is asked by nature to go it alone, but most women in general do not wish to be subject to the men in their families who have authority over them and will support them, so I do see why women would find it an easy path merely to take government money to support the situation, rather than go to their families.

The notion that as soon as murder of the unborn children is illegal, that society at large is going to have to start supporting these children is false. That is what families are for.

Oct 20th 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: 7/7. This needs to be interpreted cautiously. If someon...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: 7/7. This needs to be interpreted cautiously. If someone is not 7/7, does not mean what you have stated. I am 6/7 ....only because contraception is used to prevent bleeding to death from a uterine fibroid. Erode. Which is accepted by the church, since it is used for a medical issue.

Since your use is not for the purpose of Contraception Answering that question in the negative is an incorrect understanding of the question.

The Church's position on Contraception speaks to the use of Contraception specifically to prevent Conception.

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Paul, while your response is correct, the reality is that more than a few people answer the question as Laura has for the same or similar reasons. You can tell them they're wrong all you'd like, but the majority of them will never even see your comments. This is another example of why it's best not to ass-u-me and to use the profile responses as a flag to discuss the matter with the other person if and when the appropriate time comes.

Oct 20th 2012 new
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: I am not saying the government has to support someone down on thei...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: I am not saying the government has to support someone down on their luck. I am saying people cannot legally end abortion and walk away from those who will need assistance. There will be even greater societal ramifications if a rape victim is asked to go it alone. We, as a group of people, need to assist and help these individuals. The group of people may be defined as a " church". And I would never state that a rape victim is someone who is " down on their luck."



I am not trying to be calloused here, but by and far most women who qualify as actual rape victims are not orphans. They have families who can support them. This is not the societal problem you are making it be. The government, or saecular society beyond the family, should not have to support these women even if they were raped. If these women who were raped can't bear being subject to familial authority, they should go to the Catholic Church for support.

No woman who was raped is asked by nature to go it alone, but most women in general do not wish to be subject to the men in their families who have authority over them and will support them, so I do see why women would find it an easy path merely to take government money to support the situation, rather than go to their families.

The notion that as soon as murder of the unborn children is illegal, that society at large is going to have to start supporting these children is false. That is what families are for.

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Some don't have the family support...please understand I am speaking from experience. And again I am not speaking of govt funded hand outs. Counseling should be provided for as long as needed. Counseling not managed by the govt.
Oct 20th 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: How many people boast their war on saving the unborn, but stop short of saying I will provide the monies...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: How many people boast their war on saving the unborn, but stop short of saying I will provide the monies, time, resources to help those people who will be incapable of making rationale decisions ie. rape victims.
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I tried to understand your meaning the best I could.


Here's the thing Laura. God is VERY clear on abortion, no matter how a woman became pregnant. And, no matter if someone, let's say like me, steps up to the plate to "provide the monies, time, resources to help those people who will be incapable of making rationale decisions i.e. rape victims" or not, God is still VERY clear on abortion. It's one of our 5 non-negotiables as Catholics.

Oct 20th 2012 new
(Quote) Wendy-387654 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: How many people boast their war on saving the unborn, but stop short...
(Quote) Wendy-387654 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: How many people boast their war on saving the unborn, but stop short of saying I will provide the monies, time, resources to help those people who will be incapable of making rationale decisions ie. rape victims.


I tried to understand your meaning the best I could.


Here's the thing Laura. God is VERY clear on abortion, no matter how a woman became pregnant. And, no matter if someone, let's say like me, steps up to the plate to "provide the monies, time, resources to help those people who will be incapable of making rationale decisions i.e. rape victims" or not, God is still VERY clear on abortion. It's one of our 5 non-negotiables as Catholics.

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Hi Wendy. Yes we agree on the core issue. I also believe that in addition to making abortion illegal, we need to address the issues these people will have. Some rape victims have been known to kill, injure, or mentally and emotionally abuse the children they had, some improperly blame the child for the rape. Great to bring the child into the world, but we need to provide help so that they are protected and the mother is on the road of recovery. This may mean that we need to support them for their entire lifetime. Support does not mean money only. Counseling is key. We cannot forget we have the responsibility to help others. We're here for each other and God's will, not for ourselves and our own agenda and goals.
Oct 20th 2012 new
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Hi, Sheila,Nothing's changed for me. I didn't vote four years ago, and won't vote this N...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

Hi, Sheila,

Nothing's changed for me. I didn't vote four years ago, and won't vote this November unless something changes and my Archbishop commands it.

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In an effort to explain the significance of the concept of "civic duty", what do you believe would be the ultimate ramification if everyone followed your lead and not one person voted?
Oct 20th 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-850415 said: In an effort to explain the significance of the concept of "civic duty", what do you be...
(Quote) Paul-850415 said:

In an effort to explain the significance of the concept of "civic duty", what do you believe would be the ultimate ramification if everyone followed your lead and not one person voted?
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Simple, the House of Representatives would choose a president by majority vote. Our presidential elections are not democratic. We vote for electors to fill an Electoral College, the electors vote for whomever they please. If no citizen voted for presidential parties or candidates, no electors could be chosen, and the choice would fall to our other elected representatives in the House of Representatives.

Either way, the citizens are kidding themselves if they think they choose the president and can vote him out if he does poorly.

Oct 20th 2012 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:I don't know why you conclude that if an individual woman needs support the entirety of society...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:
I don't know why you conclude that if an individual woman needs support the entirety of society must support her. If she is unmarried that falls to her father's family. If she is married, it falls to her husband's family. If she is orphaned and destitute, it then falls to the Church. I provide for the material support of the Church so that the Church can do these things. I have no duty to support a woman directly who is basically down on her luck and pregnant , otherwise such direct support could not be called alms (alms are a free gift, not a civic duty). Since giving support to this non-familial woman would be a mercy, the government cannot morally demand that people who are not the woman's family support her. That is how subsidiarity works.

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Actually, charity places an obligation on each and everyone of us to help others. Since each of us can do little, the church and other charities exist to do things we cannot do ourselves. But that does not remove our individual responsibilities to interact with individuals, as individuals and provide them charity when needed and within our means.

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