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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Oct 21st 2012 new

Yes I think you need to talk to him more to see if he feels that he can explain why he has lost his faith - He may understand why but it's also possible that he is uncertain and only has a vague sense of why he has lost his faith. You might ask him some questions to see how he responds because I think that we often have preconceived notions about things that are often not quite on target - Sometimes people may call themselves by the name 'atheist' and when you start talking with them they aren't really as sure about what they think - Perhaps a recent illness or loss of a friend has raised questions about suffering - I have generally found that those who would call themselves atheistic are in a stage of life where they are having difficulty answering tough questions. I tend to think that in those cases they might be closer to agnostic which involves a degree of uncertainty about God rather than the certainty that there is no God for an atheist. Hope that your discussions with your friend, which I am sure you will have, go well. God Bless!

Oct 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: On a basic level, you are right when you say, "Nowhere in the world does the priest ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

On a basic level, you are right when you say, "Nowhere in the world does the priest make the church." Unfortunately, the priest is always the face of the Church that people see. And people being human, they will react in a human way to the presence of a bad priest. And since in these days, the media as a whole are very anti Church, that wholly human reaction is exacerbated.

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Couldn't agree more

Oct 23rd 2012 new

Sometimes I wonder if it's just easier to NOT believe than to take on all the requirements and suffering that accompanies belief. I know that when I think about the problem of homosexuality.....sometimes I wish I could crawl away in a hole. The thought of people leading that type of life. The hatred I've come across on both sides of the argument. But it's hard to follow the church. You have to love your neighbor and do the best for them, and sometimes they hate you for speaking the truth, even when you love them and have no malice. They may think a person judges them but it's truly the sin we're judging. Also with the difficulties in the church. With the laws. We have to honestly say there could come a day when we have to choose between following the church, or being in prison. We have to decide who to support in a world where morals seem to be crumbling more and more everyday. It isn't always a warm, squishy feeling. Sometimes it's severe pain. I had a friend who is agnostic. He said that he thinks that there could be a God, but that either way, he would still behave the same way. Well, of course, that isn't quite true. If he believed in a possibility of going to hell I know he would change a few things in his life and if he believed in God he would probably look at abortion very differently. But the difference is astounding. If God exists and humans are made in the image and likeness of God, then abortion truly is a holocaust, the like of which has never been seen in human history. If God doesn't exist, then abortion is simply the means of obtaining financial or familial or personal stability. Well, the second is more easy to face. And while many of us would like to believe we wouldn't lie to ourselves, we all do at some point in our lives.

Oct 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Marissa-529206 said: But it's hard to follow the church. You have to love your neighbor and do the best for them...
(Quote) Marissa-529206 said:

But it's hard to follow the church. You have to love your neighbor and do the best for them, and sometimes they hate you for speaking the truth, even when you love them and have no malice. They may think a person judges them but it's truly the sin we're judging. Also with the difficulties in the church.

--hide--

Part of the beauty is the burden of faith as I call it. we are constantly being pushed, challenged, accused, accusing, being human to it's fullest definition. The trick is not to become perfect, but to acknowlege the fact that we are catholic, and with that title comes responsibility. If it were easy, it wouldn't be worth as much to do, would it?

Oct 23rd 2012 new

(Quote) Marissa-529206 said: Sometimes I wonder if it's just easier to NOT believe than to take on all the requi...
(Quote) Marissa-529206 said:

Sometimes I wonder if it's just easier to NOT believe than to take on all the requirements and suffering that accompanies belief. I know that when I think about the problem of homosexuality.....sometimes I wish I could crawl away in a hole. The thought of people leading that type of life. The hatred I've come across on both sides of the argument. But it's hard to follow the church. You have to love your neighbor and do the best for them, and sometimes they hate you for speaking the truth, even when you love them and have no malice. They may think a person judges them but it's truly the sin we're judging. Also with the difficulties in the church. With the laws. We have to honestly say there could come a day when we have to choose between following the church, or being in prison. We have to decide who to support in a world where morals seem to be crumbling more and more everyday. It isn't always a warm, squishy feeling. Sometimes it's severe pain. I had a friend who is agnostic. He said that he thinks that there could be a God, but that either way, he would still behave the same way. Well, of course, that isn't quite true. If he believed in a possibility of going to hell I know he would change a few things in his life and if he believed in God he would probably look at abortion very differently. But the difference is astounding. If God exists and humans are made in the image and likeness of God, then abortion truly is a holocaust, the like of which has never been seen in human history. If God doesn't exist, then abortion is simply the means of obtaining financial or familial or personal stability. Well, the second is more easy to face. And while many of us would like to believe we wouldn't lie to ourselves, we all do at some point in our lives.

--hide--


Yes in some sense it may appear to be easier, but in others not. I think life would be horrible if I did not know that we have a Loving, Just, and Merciful God.

Nov 1st 2012 new

Maybe he's not really an atheist but rather someone who can't separate God from bad clergy and bishops. After all, many were taught to give unconditional respect to nuns and priests. Bad priests always have been around, although I believe that we've been dealing with an unprecedented wave of abuse and sexual misconduct in recent decades. Many dioceses are extremely corrupt. There is a connection between dissent and misconduct, although it's not a direct correlation because clever priests know how to put on a good show. I hardly recommend blindly trusting the Catholic Church (i.e., the human, institutional form). The Church has been corrupted because Satan wants to destroy the Church. And what better way to destroy the Church than through bad popes, cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns. I've read many cases of abuse in the Church. Satanists are undoubtedly in the Vatican in high places. It's sad, but someday the situation will be cleaned up.

Nov 1st 2012 new

(Quote) Sean-851370 said: Maybe he's not really an atheist but rather someone who can't separate God from bad clergy...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:

Maybe he's not really an atheist but rather someone who can't separate God from bad clergy and bishops. After all, many were taught to give unconditional respect to nuns and priests. Bad priests always have been around, although I believe that we've been dealing with an unprecedented wave of abuse and sexual misconduct in recent decades. Many dioceses are extremely corrupt. There is a connection between dissent and misconduct, although it's not a direct correlation because clever priests know how to put on a good show. I hardly recommend blindly trusting the Catholic Church (i.e., the human, institutional form). The Church has been corrupted because Satan wants to destroy the Church. And what better way to destroy the Church than through bad popes, cardinals, bishops, priests and nuns. I've read many cases of abuse in the Church. Satanists are undoubtedly in the Vatican in high places. It's sad, but someday the situation will be cleaned up.

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Sean, where are you getting this bilge from?

The rate of abuse by priests is less than is found in the general population. It is far more common among public school teachers for example.

Name a single diocese that is corrupt? Oh, supply at least some proof for any you name.

Or how about naming just one Pope in the last 100 years that was a bad Pope? And don't forget the proof.

Satan also works through people who toss around unfounded acusations.

Nov 2nd 2012 new
Either way never too late to pray for him and ask the Holy Spirit to move in him and give you or other faithful Catholics opportunities to evangelize and catechize
Nov 3rd 2012 new

I know exactly why. I converted to Christ's one true church in 2006. The greatest disappointment I found since rejoicing in my new discovery, was that almost no other Catholics were as excited as I was and still am about being Catholic. We have lost our identity much like Americans have forgotten what it means to be American. We take everything for granted and sit on our couches and wait for some one else to do the dirty work. What dirty work you ask? EVANGELIZATION. This is the essential mission of Christ's church. Look what 12 dumb fishermen did when they were filled with the gifts of the Holy Spirit! Now, look what each of us has done. We all received the same gifts at our confirmation yet NONE of us went out like we were sent to do to make Saints of all nations, to evangelize, to proclaim the Gospel that Jesus is King! Your friend left because you let him. It was too hard to do otherwise. When was the last time you talked to any of your friends Catholic or otherwise about the incredible gifts you received from the Holy Spirit? Do you even know what they are? Do remember where you put them after you received them? I often find myself at a moment of truth where I ask myself if it is even worth it; is there any point to trying to shine the light of Christ of our society and some of the lost and stubborn souls of this world and just when I start to faulter, guess what I do. That's right, I pray for a sign and before the amen to that prayer I have my sign. Some one comes to me and asks me to do something for them or asks me a question about my faith (or their's) or needs me in some way or I see a bird fly up into a tree or a gnat lands on my cheek or I hear a dog bark or I see a child playing in her yard and I realize that all of this - ALL OF THIS is for me and I know that every aspect of my life would not be possible had it not been for the God man and his great creation and his great sacrifice. Chances are good that your friend is not a true atheist because a true atheist has a certain (although unreasonable) system of beliefs that they think are based on reason. He is probably, just like millions of other people on this planet, confused or misinformed about what it means to be Catholic. Go to him and talk to him. First read a book about Catholicism. Matthew Kelly, Scott Hahn, Steven Ray, Fulton Sheen. Start anywhere in any book by any of these authors. Attend RCIA. Every one on the planet should attend RCIA. "Cradle Catholics" are some of the weakest Catholics going; questioning the teachings of the Church, choosing what and what not to believe, throwing out misinformation, believing misinformation coming in, flopping around like fish at the bottom of a boat waiting to be scooped up and served to who ever wants them. We have a church called the Cowboy Church that's drawing some away from our church. WHAT!!??? GIVE ME A BREAK!!! YEEHAW JESUS! (He's rolling His eyes with all the Saints in heaven) Do they worship Roy Rogers? That's a good rumor to start. We "worship" Mary, they worship Roy Rogers. I'm going with that one. Sorry, I got side-tracked. Strap a pair on and TALK TO PEOPLE. I asked my 10th grade confirmation class at the beginning of the year what was the pillar and foundation of truth. They ALL said it was the Bible. That's not what the Bible says. If you don't know this one you should crack open and dust off your Bible and read Timothy 1 & 2...you'll find it. While you're at it, read the whole thing. You'll be amazed at how the words jump off the page when you read it with Catholic glasses on.

Nov 3rd 2012 new

To date, some 3,000 priests worldwide have been accused and found guilty of some sort of sexual misconduct in the Catholic church. Of those cases, millions of dollars in damages have been awarded the victims and their families. A member of my own family and his brother were victimized. His brother committed suicide as a result and the surviving brother was awarded damages. Many in my family have suffered because of this tragedy so I know well the suffering. 3,000 priests worldwide in the current history of the church. It may interest you to know that last year alone, over 45,000 cases of sexual misconduct from teachers and administration of the United States public school systems have been reported. Few if them have been filed, prosecuted, or tried. When a person is found guilty, they are removed from the school and are free to go to any other school district to teach. Why is there no news or lawsuits involved? Both news and lawsuits are about money of which a school teacher has very little. The school districts claim no responsibility for their wrong doings and no damages are awarded. No news...no lawsuit. The Catholic Church has many members but is one body. Therefore, it suffers from the wrong doings of its members and awards damages because there is an obligation to do so. Where there is money there is news...especially when it's Catholic money. The Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints. Are we not all sinners?

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