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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

Oct 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Shannan-733493 said: Democractic party activists wanted a single payer system, and, if they couldn't get that, ...
(Quote) Shannan-733493 said:

Democractic party activists wanted a single payer system, and, if they couldn't get that, they wanted at least a public option.


--hide--


And as with anything provided by the government, what begins as an option eventually becomes a dependency which ultimately becomes mandatory.


theheart

Oct 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Shannan-733493 said: They don't want to see so much money going toward the high administrative costs of private...
(Quote) Shannan-733493 said:

They don't want to see so much money going toward the high administrative costs of private insurance companies, rather than to direct patient care.


--hide--


And PLEASE tell me any organization anywhere in the world during the course of human history that operates with higher administrative costs than our Federal Government!


Name ONE!


theheart

Oct 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: I will repeat this again for those who are historically challenged which is anyone under ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

I will repeat this again for those who are historically challenged which is anyone under 55 year sold.

50 years ago, the percentage of the population today without health insurance is the same percentage then that had health insurance. Yet no one failed to receive the care they needed when they needed it. In those days the majority of Drs treated patients and charged them what they could afford even if that was nothing. the same with most hospitals, especially Catholic ones.

So ask your self, what changed?

The simple answer is medicare, the Government sticking its nose in where it did not belong. Yes, a lot of us older people benefited from it. But the cost to the nation has been DRs no longer, as a group, treat anyone and charge in accordance with what the patient can pay. Rarely did hospitals go broke. But they do now. Why?

Again, the heavy hand of Government with its onerous and costly regulations, fines for insignificant breaking of those rules so that Gov't bureaucrats can say they are watching the public purse at a cost far in excess of the fines collected or the damage done by the inadvertent breaking of those rules.

All serving to drive the cost of health care higher and higher.

Just examine what is happening with medicare even without Obama stealing $750 billion from the program. Bureaucratic driven costs climb and to try and rein in those costs, medicare cuts the amount they will reimburse, further driving costs up because DRs can't run their practises overburdened with administrative needs with the reduced reimbursements. Same with hospitals.

Government just does not belong in health care.

--hide--
Your last line says it all Paul. "Government just does not belong in health care". The role of government in health care should be limited to regulations which ensure licensing of medical professionals, the safety and purity of pharmaceuticals and cleanliness of clinical environments, insurance regulations that protect patients from discrimination etc.... This is the true role of Congress - to regulate in order to create a safe and fair playing field for free market to florish, but NOT to run the industry themselves!

Medicare is perfect example. The Social Security System would be robust today as a retirement benefit. It is Medicare which threatens to destroy it for reasons such as those you have mentioned. The real problem here is the spiraling COSTS of medical treatment, and Obamacare doesn't fix it, it merely redistributes the costs. The out-of-control costs that are ruining American health care include: Trial lawyers who siphon millions in health care dollars in cases which rarely go to trial, but are settled out of court. The attorney takes a big chunk and moves on to the next client. Does anyone really believe that doctors and malpractice insurers will simply absorb these losses? Of couse not! They find a way to pass it on to the rest of us. Further, as a defensive measure, doctor's burden the system with unneeded tests and procedures just to protect themselves from being sued! We need Tort reform! There is no reason for pharmaceutical treatments to be so expensive. These drug companies are gouging consumers to the extreme, and our lawmakers do nothing. We need changes in the competitive structure of the phamaceutical industry! Health care providers for too long have shamelessly discriminated against consumers (though I admit that Obamacare does address this to a degree) and like drug companies, are in need of competitive restructuring as well. Don't believe for a minute that these Obamacare "health care exchanges", which will be created by each state, will solve it. Health insurers are all in bed with state leaders, and will do anything to limit the competition at your expence! We need leaders who are not afraid to challenge these PAC's, and create a fair and affordable free market health care system. Socialized medicine is NOT the answer!

Oct 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: I will repeat this again for those who are historically challenged which is anyone under ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

I will repeat this again for those who are historically challenged which is anyone under 55 year sold.

50 years ago, the percentage of the population today without health insurance is the same percentage then that had health insurance. Yet no one failed to receive the care they needed when they needed it. In those days the majority of Drs treated patients and charged them what they could afford even if that was nothing. the same with most hospitals, especially Catholic ones.

So ask your self, what changed?

The simple answer is medicare, the Government sticking its nose in where it did not belong. Yes, a lot of us older people benefited from it. But the cost to the nation has been DRs no longer, as a group, treat anyone and charge in accordance with what the patient can pay. Rarely did hospitals go broke. But they do now. Why?

Again, the heavy hand of Government with its onerous and costly regulations, fines for insignificant breaking of those rules so that Gov't bureaucrats can say they are watching the public purse at a cost far in excess of the fines collected or the damage done by the inadvertent breaking of those rules.

All serving to drive the cost of health care higher and higher.

Just examine what is happening with medicare even without Obama stealing $750 billion from the program. Bureaucratic driven costs climb and to try and rein in those costs, medicare cuts the amount they will reimburse, further driving costs up because DRs can't run their practises overburdened with administrative needs with the reduced reimbursements. Same with hospitals.

Government just does not belong in health care.

--hide--


That was very informative, Paul. And you forgot to mention that Doctors used to make house calls back in the day. No
more though.

Oct 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Joseph-750000 said: Your last line says it all Paul. "Government just does not belong in health care". The...
(Quote) Joseph-750000 said:

Your last line says it all Paul. "Government just does not belong in health care". The role of government in health care should be limited to regulations which ensure licensing of medical professionals, the safety and purity of pharmaceuticals and cleanliness of clinical environments, insurance regulations that protect patients from discrimination etc.... This is the true role of Congress - to regulate in order to create a safe and fair playing field for free market to florish, but NOT to run the industry themselves!

Medicare is perfect example. The Social Security System would be robust today as a retirement benefit. It is Medicare which threatens to destroy it for reasons such as those you have mentioned. The real problem here is the spiraling COSTS of medical treatment, and Obamacare doesn't fix it, it merely redistributes the costs. The out-of-control costs that are ruining American health care include: Trial lawyers who siphon millions in health care dollars in cases which rarely go to trial, but are settled out of court. The attorney takes a big chunk and moves on to the next client. Does anyone really believe that doctors and malpractice insurers will simply absorb these losses? Of couse not! They find a way to pass it on to the rest of us. Further, as a defensive measure, doctor's burden the system with unneeded tests and procedures just to protect themselves from being sued! We need Tort reform! There is no reason for treatments to be so expensive. These drug companies are gouging consumers to the extreme, and our lawmakers do nothing. We need changes in the competitive structure of the phamaceutical industry! Health care providers for too long have shamelessly discriminated against consumers (though I admit that Obamacare does address this to a degree) and like drug companies, are in need of competitive restructuring as well. Don't believe for a minute that these Obamacare "health care exchanges", which will be created by each state, will solve it. Health insurers are all in bed with state leaders, and will do anything to limit the competition at your expence! We need leaders who are not afraid to challenge these PAC's, and create a fair and affordable free market health care system. Socialized medicine is NOT the answer!

--hide--

You are absolutely correct about tort reform. Trial lawyers are one of the most powerful lobbies around. And we have to remember that lawyers are the single largest group of legislators at all levels of Government; Federal, State and local. So lawyers get kid glove treatment in law.

But I have to disagree about pharmaceutical companies. Two things drive the cost of medicines.

1) Ridiculous regulation that makes the development and approval of drugs extremely costly and time consuming. By the time a new, effective drug is approved for use in this country, a major portion of the patent life is already over. All those costs have to be recovered rather quickly. And profits are needed to research and process new drugs

2) The US, in effect, subsidizes, medicines for the rest of the world. Every country with socialized medicine controls the price that can be charged for a medicine by a company. The controlled price is not enough to provide the manufacturer a full recovery of its cots plus enough profits to fund research and development and provide a profit for the owners of the pharmaceutical companies.

So the US being virtually the only free market, we Americans have had to carry the burden for all those socialist countries with out pocketbooks. So yes, we Americans pay to much for medicines because socialists refuse to pay their share.

And if one wants to argue that there are pharmaceutical companies overseas developing drugs and that proves my statement false, forgets that those foreign companies sell their drugs here as well and charge us a price large enough to recover their costs, etc..

And as we spiral into socialized medicine, we too will be putting controls on drug costs which will result in the pipeline of new drugs drying up because costs and new development money will dry up.

Oct 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: That was very informative, Paul. And you forgot to mention that Doctors used to make h...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



That was very informative, Paul. And you forgot to mention that Doctors used to make house calls back in the day. No
more though.

--hide--


Actually, Marianne, there are some doctors that still do make housecalls. I know of one in downtown/near north side of Chicago! I went with him on his house call rounds to see what it was like.

Oct 31st 2012 new
This is pretty good!

No ObamaCare - www.youtube.com

"Dinesh D'Souza & Michael Shermer in Socratic Club Debate at Oregon State University 10-8-12 . Questions from the student body regarding Universal Health Care / ObamaCare. The answers were quite well presented and the student body seemed to agree."
Oct 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Mary-486033 said: This is pretty good! No ObamaCare - www.youtube.com.
(Quote) Mary-486033 said: This is pretty good!

No ObamaCare - www.youtube.com

"Dinesh D'Souza & Michael Shermer in Socratic Club Debate at Oregon State University 10-8-12 . Questions from the student body regarding Universal Health Care / ObamaCare. The answers were quite well presented and the student body seemed to agree."
--hide--


I want to thank you Mary. You post such important, well-researched information, that is so very vital for us to know for this election season!!


Keep up the GREAT work of keeping us informed.


And know, quoting from our reading from last Sunday, we are all "beset with weaknesses", sometimes so much so that we will fight, accuse, cry "foul", and play the victim, just to stay steeped in our weakness. Please know that as you battle those who either don't recognize their besotted weakness, or if they do realize it, don't want to turn from it, it's not you. You are fighting the good fight...for our Holy Church and for those who need the information.


Stay strong!! Go USA hug

Oct 31st 2012 new

(Quote) Shannan-733493 said: Thanks, Wendy! I needed that reminder. :-) Taking off here. I don't want to get in...
(Quote) Shannan-733493 said:

Thanks, Wendy! I needed that reminder. :-)

Taking off here. I don't want to get into ugly ideological debates or be told I'm going to hell by any self-appointed spiritual advisors. But what motivated me to post again was the misinformation that people have posted here. It just makes me sad. People like Cheryl will benefit from the law.

But you are absolutely right. I said I wasn't going to post anymore, so away I go. But I urge anyone who wonders whether the law really cuts off cancer coverage for senior citizens (NOT TRUE) or establishes a single-payer government-run plan (NOT TRUE) to read reputable summaries of the law.

Good night!

By the way, I totally understand why so many people are joining together to fight against the HHS mandate. But that is just a regulation that could be changed without undoing the whole law. You can oppose the mandate and support the basics of the law.
--hide--
the Worst Insurance company is the Government that is a Fact . Obama plan is the disruption of the Constitution and take away our Liberties . Ronald Reagan who i cannot stand made a speech about national Health Care and its a must to oppose this Socialist /Communist way upon us . Khrushchev did say he would destroy the United States from within . Obama is sure doing a Good job of it .

Nov 1st 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: You are absolutely correct about tort reform. Trial lawyers are one of the most powerful ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

You are absolutely correct about tort reform. Trial lawyers are one of the most powerful lobbies around. And we have to remember that lawyers are the single largest group of legislators at all levels of Government; Federal, State and local. So lawyers get kid glove treatment in law.

But I have to disagree about pharmaceutical companies. Two things drive the cost of medicines.

1) Ridiculous regulation that makes the development and approval of drugs extremely costly and time consuming. By the time a new, effective drug is approved for use in this country, a major portion of the patent life is already over. All those costs have to be recovered rather quickly. And profits are needed to research and process new drugs

2) The US, in effect, subsidizes, medicines for the rest of the world. Every country with socialized medicine controls the price that can be charged for a medicine by a company. The controlled price is not enough to provide the manufacturer a full recovery of its cots plus enough profits to fund research and development and provide a profit for the owners of the pharmaceutical companies.

So the US being virtually the only free market, we Americans have had to carry the burden for all those socialist countries with out pocketbooks. So yes, we Americans pay to much for medicines because socialists refuse to pay their share.

And if one wants to argue that there are pharmaceutical companies overseas developing drugs and that proves my statement false, forgets that those foreign companies sell their drugs here as well and charge us a price large enough to recover their costs, etc..

And as we spiral into socialized medicine, we too will be putting controls on drug costs which will result in the pipeline of new drugs drying up because costs and new development money will dry up.

--hide--
Thanks for the informative post Paul. You present a sensible argument as to the extreme costs to Americans - "The US, in effect, subsidizes medicines for the rest of the world". Understood, but how can government increase the competition within the pharmaceutical industry to lower costs? In fact, less regulation may be the answer. A major reason for the over-regulation involved with the development of new drugs is to 'protect the consumer'. Actually, the real reason is to avoid lawsuits, because over time, unanticipated harmful effects from a new drug results in (you guessed it) lawsuits!

Regarding the idea of drug development money drying up, I again believe, an increased competitive environment among researchers working with hospitals, universities, and manufacturers can still provide attractive financial incentives for the development of new treatments. Sensible regulation together with tort reform would help alot! Under socialized medicine incentive is reduced, benefiting no one.

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