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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Nov 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: Do you want to hear something funny...somone on...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
Cheryl-409772 said:

Do you want to hear something funny...somone on the t.v. just got done saying that he might have resigned so he could tell the truth about what happened and said "the guy doesn't lie".....huh? Wasn't he having an affair????? Pretty sure he had to be lying to do that. Shees.


Not necessarily lying except to himself. It is possible to have an affair without ever lying to the spouse. You could argue he was living a lie and I can't argue with that. But it is not always necessary to lie to any person. At least for a while.

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Uh....I don't think so....sooner or later questions would come up about the happenings of the day and lies would be told to avoid getting caught. It doesn't really matter either way, I guess....there really is no way to validate what you are saying that someone could have an affair and not lie...I can't picture it ever being possible...again doesn't really matter....it is just annoying when you hear the media saying he doesn't lie and is honorable....bla, bla, bla stuff.

Nov 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Sean-851370 said: Paul, you're naive. I don't get it. My grandfather is older than you are but belie...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:



Paul, you're naive. I don't get it. My grandfather is older than you are but believes GW Bush knowingly lied about WMDs in Iraq and questions who profits from all our wars. You seem to believe everything that comes out of an authority figure. I don't hate all authority, but I question the decisions of our government and president. I understand that some people need to follow authority blindly. That is their decision to make. What I don't understand is why people who accuse foreign governments of disseminating propaganda never acuse their own of doing the same.

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laughing laughing and you bring up the tin foil hat.....forget the intelligence and the fact that congress thought so too....and you say you aren't liberal and weren't brought up liberal....right.... laughing

Nov 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Sean-851370 said: What does it mean to say that the gates of hell will not prevail? Perhaps that they won't prev...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:

What does it mean to say that the gates of hell will not prevail? Perhaps that they won't prevail but that they could come very, very close to prevailing?
So are Leo XIII and Pius X wacky conspiracy theorists for fearing what was in store for the Church in the future? Even Paul VI himself supposedly said that the smoke of Satan has entered the Church. The real threat isn't outside the Church; it's inside the Church.

I don't doubt that a monk can be involved with Opus Dei. But are there Opus Dei monks? Two different things there.

You never really learned to think. Banks lie and steal from people. Most probably don't, but those at the top have very sketchy histories. Same with our own government. Same with the Church. People see all these entities as monolithic structures. That conception of the Church perhaps goes back to the days of the Enlightenment or the Reformation. But that conception does not correspond with reality. The Church is made up of people, some of whom have anything but noble intentions. That has been shown throughout history. Today is no different.

Sure, you've been dismissive of the abuse scandal. You point out the serious problem of abuse in schools as a means to direct attention away from that same problem in the Church. Vatican II has more than a share of problems with the teachings of the Church. The whole conception of a "pilgrim Church" is problematic, i.e., the notion that the Church doesn't have the truth and always searching for the truth. After Vatican II, the Church was cast adrift on a sea of uncertainty, where something could be true at one point in time but not in another. That's historicism and modernism. Will you ever see that? I doubt so, because I don't think you have the ability to look much past the face of things. There is a lot below the surface in everything.

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Its gets so ridiculous. Someone who has demonstrated absolutely no ability to think accusing me of not being able to think.

For God's sake, if you have any rational proof any men at the top of banks with sketchy history, report therm to the authorities. You won't of course, because all you have are rumors from the conspiracy web sires you frequent and believe in.

Then even more ridiculous you destroy your own argument when you finally point out that it is individuals, not the entities themselves that can be problems. Here you admit that all these structures you despise are not monolithic. Yet every thing you post says exactly the opposite of that. The banks do this, the church does that. Do you even read the gibberish you write?

I specifically asked you if your were ranting and raving about the abuse going on in those other institutions where the level of abuse is much higher than it ever was in the Church. And you decide that I was being dismissive of the abuse in the Church. Sorry to disabuse you, I was being dismissive of you.

You rantings about Vatican IUI only prove that your are completely clueless about Vatican II.

For your less than informed mind, the Church was not cast adrift by anything coming out of Vatican II. It did by those who like you, were clueless what the Documents of VII said and started doing all kinds of things "in the spirit of Vatican II."

So now, who was the last good Pope? Come on, Sean tell us we would all like to know.

Nov 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Its gets so ridiculous. Someone who has demonstrated absolutely no ability to think accus...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Its gets so ridiculous. Someone who has demonstrated absolutely no ability to think accusing me of not being able to think.

For God's sake, if you have any rational proof any men at the top of banks with sketchy history, report therm to the authorities. You won't of course, because all you have are rumors from the conspiracy web sires you frequent and believe in.

Then even more ridiculous you destroy your own argument when you finally point out that it is individuals, not the entities themselves that can be problems. Here you admit that all these structures you despise are not monolithic. Yet every thing you post says exactly the opposite of that. The banks do this, the church does that. Do you even read the gibberish you write?

I specifically asked you if your were ranting and raving about the abuse going on in those other institutions where the level of abuse is much higher than it ever was in the Church. And you decide that I was being dismissive of the abuse in the Church. Sorry to disabuse you, I was being dismissive of you.

You rantings about Vatican IUI only prove that your are completely clueless about Vatican II.

For your less than informed mind, the Church was not cast adrift by anything coming out of Vatican II. It did by those who like you, were clueless what the Documents of VII said and started doing all kinds of things "in the spirit of Vatican II."

So now, who was the last good Pope? Come on, Sean tell us we would all like to know.

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You remind me of one of the nutjobs who hang out at McDonalds drinking coffee all day long, going on and on about how kids don't know anything. The Church not cast adrift? What planet do you live on? Try reading Atila Sinke Guimarães' multi-volume history of the aberrations of Vatican II.

Who's the last good pope? I don't know. Why don't you tell us, Paul? You seem to know it all anyway. All you do is criticize me while offering nothing yourself. Your knowledge of economics and history amounts to practically nothing yet you're full of advice. Tell me, Paul, tell me how priests don't lie and do bad things. Tell me how big banks don't lie and cheat people. You're a shill...an absolute shill. Tell me how Obama is somehow worse than Romney. Your whole worldview is just downright wrong. And please learn how to spell before you keep calling me an idiot and questioning how I earned a degree.

Nov 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Its gets so ridiculous. Someone who has demonstrated absolutely no ability to think accus...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Its gets so ridiculous. Someone who has demonstrated absolutely no ability to think accusing me of not being able to think.

For God's sake, if you have any rational proof any men at the top of banks with sketchy history, report therm to the authorities. You won't of course, because all you have are rumors from the conspiracy web sires you frequent and believe in.

Then even more ridiculous you destroy your own argument when you finally point out that it is individuals, not the entities themselves that can be problems. Here you admit that all these structures you despise are not monolithic. Yet every thing you post says exactly the opposite of that. The banks do this, the church does that. Do you even read the gibberish you write?

I specifically asked you if your were ranting and raving about the abuse going on in those other institutions where the level of abuse is much higher than it ever was in the Church. And you decide that I was being dismissive of the abuse in the Church. Sorry to disabuse you, I was being dismissive of you.

You rantings about Vatican IUI only prove that your are completely clueless about Vatican II.

For your less than informed mind, the Church was not cast adrift by anything coming out of Vatican II. It did by those who like you, were clueless what the Documents of VII said and started doing all kinds of things "in the spirit of Vatican II."

So now, who was the last good Pope? Come on, Sean tell us we would all like to know.

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I think you should give up on him Paul...these guys are just getting more and more insulting like calling people "nutjobs"....and by attacking the church (and I don't seriously know why they are even on a Catholic site), they sure aren't helping it....it gets enough attacks from noncatholics. I think praying for it is vital because evil attacks our priests more than anything and people fail.....but that is why we got to stay faithful to it and pray for it. Anyway, good try.

Nov 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Sean-851370 said: I'd say the "conspiracy", if that's what one wants to call it, i...
(Quote) Sean-851370 said:





I'd say the "conspiracy", if that's what one wants to call it, is man's overthrowing of God and apotheosis. The Church is the main spiritual obstacle to the apotheosis of man. Thus, God's laws must be abolished and replaced with laws made by some men. As a result, we have seen the mass dissemination of propaganda favoring abortion, drug abuse, gambling, homosexuality, the occult, usury and a vast array of other nonsense aimed at the subversion of society.

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There is also an element of the gnostic in this too, of course. There is the imperative to displace nature with the unnatural, which harkens back to the classical gnostic derision for the physical universe that they thought was evil.

Immanetist Gnosticism, which biologizes the spirit of man and supposedly devotes absolute primacy to the physicial ontologicial plane, seeks to purify the physical plane by evolving it to the desire of the only god they worship, which is themselves.

Nov 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: There is also an element of the gnostic in this too, of course. There is the imperative...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

There is also an element of the gnostic in this too, of course. There is the imperative to displace nature with the unnatural, which harkens back to the classical gnostic derision for the physical universe that they thought was evil.

Immanetist Gnosticism, which biologizes the spirit of man and supposedly devotes absolute primacy to the physicial ontologicial plane, seeks to purify the physical plane by evolving it to the desire of the only god they worship, which is themselves.

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Steven, what does Immanetist mean or refer to? I've not heard this word/name/term before.

Nov 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: There is also an element of the gnostic in this too, of course. There is the imperative...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

There is also an element of the gnostic in this too, of course. There is the imperative to displace nature with the unnatural, which harkens back to the classical gnostic derision for the physical universe that they thought was evil.

Immanetist Gnosticism, which biologizes the spirit of man and supposedly devotes absolute primacy to the physicial ontologicial plane, seeks to purify the physical plane by evolving it to the desire of the only god they worship, which is themselves.

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Immanentize the eschaton! Remember Francis Fukuyama's The End of History? Fascinating to get into the philosophical and theological aspects of evolution and how certain elites apparently actually believe in bringing about a utopia (in reality dystopia) on earth.

Nov 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: Steven, what does Immanetist mean or refer to? I've not heard this word/name/term b...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:



Steven, what does Immanetist mean or refer to? I've not heard this word/name/term before.

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The manifestation of the divine in the physical world. God became immanent in Christ.

Nov 12th 2012 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: Steven, what does Immanetist mean or refer to? I've not heard this word/name/term b...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:



Steven, what does Immanetist mean or refer to? I've not heard this word/name/term before.

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Immanent refers to the Phyiscal plane of reality, as opposed to the transcendent, or that which is beyond the physical.

Applied theologically, it refers to ideas that place the Divine within the plane of physical creation. Hinduism and Buddism do this through their pantheistic theology, which identifies the Divine with cosmos. Thus, both religions believe that man is god and that, to achieve salvation, one has to draw out his own self-divinity.

If that sounds an awful lot like New Agism, that where a lot of it comes from.

Gnosticism has this as it's essential idea as well, as does Freemasonry.

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