Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free
A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

Nov 16th 2012 new

Karis,


Are you not going to answer my question (in the email above)?.... Or do you need more time to think of the correct answer?


I ask you.... again... Which is more loony/crazy?.... This woman who tried to run over her husband with an SUV or someone who votes for a president who thinks that parents should have the right to kill, dismember and dispose of their own unborn children? ... even after the child is accidentally delivered alive.


Just asking. I assumed that you would have a good and thoughful answer..... Or are you stumped?


Ed

LOCKED
Nov 16th 2012 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: Could you explain more why you think medicare is bad and medicaid is not because medicare helps ...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Could you explain more why you think medicare is bad and medicaid is not because medicare helps the elderly who are no longer working with jobs and don't have insurance? My parents have medicare and they also pay into it too so it doesn't just completely cover them but it helps.

Again, as I said on the other thread...I don't have a problem with republicans using the safety net and helping those in need (true need not birth control and abortions because that is NOT health care) cause we all are in need sooner or later, I think...but I just don't know the best way for that to happen.

--hide--

I'll try. I think the problem with Medicare is the same as the problem with all socialized medicine. When you have government or some third party payer, the patient is less concerned about costs, and so costs rise higher than they would otherwise. I infer that this is the problem, because Paul Ryan's plan for reigning in the costs of Medicare in the future is to use what are essentially vouchers that recipients can use to buy insurance plans on the market. It is market forces and competition, then, that are utilized to put downward pressure on costs. If we never had Medicare, we would have market forces and competition already. Maybe health care would now cost much less (who knows what the opportunity cost of having had Medicare all these years). The thought of the elderly not having Medicare to fall back on might sound scary, but remember that they also would have accumulated more personal wealth at this point since, with no Medicare to pay into, less payroll tax would have been taken out of their paycheck all these years. If some of the elderly are still too poor to afford health care, then they qualify for Medicaid, or whatever means-tested programs gov't wishes to provide. By the way, I never said Medicaid wasn't bad. It sounds like there's a lot of fraud and abuse in that program too. In the end, I'm not sure what is the best way to handle the health care issue either. But I think a good rule of thumb is to try to have as little government interference as possible.

LOCKED
Nov 16th 2012 new

(Quote) Mary-814080 said: They modeled the national healthcare on the Massachusetts model and yes it is a very blue state bu...
(Quote) Mary-814080 said:

They modeled the national healthcare on the Massachusetts model and yes it is a very blue state but they tended in the late 90's and early millenia to elect Republican governors. If Mr. Romney didn't think that this was a good plan he could have vetoed it, but health insurance costs at the time this was enacted were in the double digits. Do I like Obamacare? Not really, there are things in this plan that I do not like and go against my beliefs, but if it will help the citizens who have nothing then it could be good. Healthcare is not cheap and if you are employed your employer will soon be telling you how much this costs them on a yearly basis. Most of us do not have a cadillac plan but it covers our expenses.


Florian, I think both Medicare and Medicaid are good programs that provide assistance to the most neediest citizens. Our elderly have medicare and another health plan to cover what Medicare doesn't. It's not cheap.

--hide--
If he had vetoed it in MA, they would have passed it anyway and made it worse...yes they could easily get the percentage needed...see Florian's response above. He also firmly believed health care should stay on the state level as in medicaid.

No, this will not be good for anyone...it will lead to physician assisted suicide on a national level for one thing....and we must never, ever support anything or anyone that causes more abortions and makes us pay for it at that. There are more reasons too regarding cost and health issues that it isn't good, but it is getting late and I'm too tired to get into it anymore when we have been talking about it for months.

Actually, if you think about it, we just had a story about a woman in Oregon who got a letter from the medicaid "death panel" in Oregon saying they wouldn't pay for her cancer medicine but would pay for her assisted suicide medicine (assisted suicide is legal in Oregon and WA). Can you believe that they will provide birth control for free but won't pay for cancer medicine....do we really want that on a FEDERAL level! Health care needs to stay on the state level. Federal govt. was only meant for our protection....it has taken on all these other "duties" little by little which is why people are saying we are now socialist.

LOCKED
Nov 16th 2012 new

(Quote) Florian-626971 said: I'll try. I think the problem with Medicare is the same as the problem with all so...
(Quote) Florian-626971 said:

I'll try. I think the problem with Medicare is the same as the problem with all socialized medicine. When you have government or some third party payer, the patient is less concerned about costs, and so costs rise higher than they would otherwise. I infer that this is the problem, because Paul Ryan's plan for reigning in the costs of Medicare in the future is to use what are essentially vouchers that recipients can use to buy insurance plans on the market. It is market forces and competition, then, that are utilized to put downward pressure on costs. If we never had Medicare, we would have market forces and competition already. Maybe health care would now cost much less (who knows what the opportunity cost of having had Medicare all these years). The thought of the elderly not having Medicare to fall back on might sound scary, but remember that they also would have accumulated more personal wealth at this point since, with no Medicare to pay into, less payroll tax would have been taken out of their paycheck all these years. If some of the elderly are still too poor to afford health care, then they qualify for Medicaid, or whatever means-tested programs gov't wishes to provide. By the way, I never said Medicaid wasn't bad. It sounds like there's a lot of fraud and abuse in that program too. In the end, I'm not sure what is the best way to handle the health care issue either. But I think a good rule of thumb is to try to have as little government interference as possible.

--hide--
Well, this actually makes sense because people were always saying that Obamacare was benefitting big business because there wouldn't be any competition when the govt. eventually took it over completely....which they will do little by little by making it impossible.

At this point though...I know my parents need the help. They barely scrape by but like me they wouldn't qualify for medicaid....however, since they are old, they NEED it...no if ands or buts. I guess they would have qualified for the vouchers under Ryan though.

LOCKED
Nov 16th 2012 new

I'll just say one more reason really quick since Florian brought it up....no competition in health care will raise prices and Obama even admitted that sooner or later the govt. will be taking it over completely driving out private health care businesses.

LOCKED
Nov 16th 2012 new

(Quote) Mary-814080 said: They modeled the national healthcare on the Massachusetts model and yes it is a very blue state bu...
(Quote) Mary-814080 said:

They modeled the national healthcare on the Massachusetts model and yes it is a very blue state but they tended in the late 90's and early millenia to elect Republican governors. If Mr. Romney didn't think that this was a good plan he could have vetoed it, but health insurance costs at the time this was enacted were in the double digits. Do I like Obamacare? Not really, there are things in this plan that I do not like and go against my beliefs, but if it will help the citizens who have nothing then it could be good. Healthcare is not cheap and if you are employed your employer will soon be telling you how much this costs them on a yearly basis. Most of us do not have a cadillac plan but it covers our expenses.


Florian, I think both Medicare and Medicaid are good programs that provide assistance to the most neediest citizens. Our elderly have medicare and another health plan to cover what Medicare doesn't. It's not cheap.

--hide--

Of course, it's not cheap. But WHY is it not cheap? I have suggested and Cheryl has now suggested that government involvement might be part of the reason why health care is so expensive. I can't prove it here, but if government is part of the problem, then I think we can agree that it's probably not rational to look to government for solutions. This is one reason why I think Obamacare is so irrational.

Just think about the possibilities of health care in a more free, libertarian society. Would it be less safe because it is less regulated? Okay, that's one negative consequence. But on the positive side, just think how easy and cheap it would be to treat your sinus infections. That doctors visit would be cheaper. Maybe there would be no co-pays, but the doctor's office gave out coupons to make going to the doctor more affordable. Maybe you wouldn't need to get a licensed doctor to give you a prescription anyway, especially if gov't didn't force doctors to be licensed. Just walk into the pharmacy and get your anti-biotics. Maybe there would be better and cheaper treatments for sinus infections if the FDA weren't regulating them so much. FDA, remember, is a government agency. Gosh... everytime I turn around, I notice yet another little way that government/bureaucracy makes health care more inconvenient and expensive.

LOCKED
Nov 16th 2012 new

(Quote) Florian-626971 said: Of course, it's not cheap. But WHY is it not cheap? I have suggested and Cheryl ha...
(Quote) Florian-626971 said:

Of course, it's not cheap. But WHY is it not cheap? I have suggested and Cheryl has now suggested that government involvement might be part of the reason why health care is so expensive. I can't prove it here, but if government is part of the problem, then I think we can agree that it's probably not rational to look to government for solutions. This is one reason why I think Obamacare is so irrational.

Just think about the possibilities of health care in a more free, libertarian society. Would it be less safe because it is less regulated? Okay, that's one negative consequence. But on the positive side, just think how easy and cheap it would be to treat your sinus infections. That doctors visit would be cheaper. Maybe there would be no co-pays, but the doctor's office gave out coupons to make going to the doctor more affordable. Maybe you wouldn't need to get a licensed doctor to give you a prescription anyway, especially if gov't didn't force doctors to be licensed. Just walk into the pharmacy and get your anti-biotics. Maybe there would be better and cheaper treatments for sinus infections if the FDA weren't regulating them so much. FDA, remember, is a government agency. Gosh... everytime I turn around, I notice yet another little way that government/bureaucracy makes health care more inconvenient and expensive.

--hide--
Well, and here is another example of this....in TX, you can go to the doctor and pay 10 dollars for a physical for your child when you don't have insurance. In PA, it would be 60 dollars....when you don't have insurance....at least in the areas where I lived and the doctors I found that were the cheapest. Why...because PA insanely over does govt. interference. The doctors were no better in PA than in TX.

LOCKED
Nov 16th 2012 new
(Quote) James-17080 said:.....seen far too many wizards here over the years ......
(Quote) James-17080 said:.....seen far too many wizards here over the years ......
--hide--


What's this nonsense about wizards in your posts? Come out of the Land of Oz and Harry Potter, and join the rest of us in reality.
LOCKED
Nov 16th 2012 new

(Quote) Florian-626971 said: Of course, it's not cheap. But WHY is it not cheap? I have suggested and Cheryl ha...
(Quote) Florian-626971 said:

Of course, it's not cheap. But WHY is it not cheap? I have suggested and Cheryl has now suggested that government involvement might be part of the reason why health care is so expensive. I can't prove it here, but if government is part of the problem, then I think we can agree that it's probably not rational to look to government for solutions. This is one reason why I think Obamacare is so irrational.

Just think about the possibilities of health care in a more free, libertarian society. Would it be less safe because it is less regulated? Okay, that's one negative consequence. But on the positive side, just think how easy and cheap it would be to treat your sinus infections. That doctors visit would be cheaper. Maybe there would be no co-pays, but the doctor's office gave out coupons to make going to the doctor more affordable. Maybe you wouldn't need to get a licensed doctor to give you a prescription anyway, especially if gov't didn't force doctors to be licensed. Just walk into the pharmacy and get your anti-biotics. Maybe there would be better and cheaper treatments for sinus infections if the FDA weren't regulating them so much. FDA, remember, is a government agency. Gosh... everytime I turn around, I notice yet another little way that government/bureaucracy makes health care more inconvenient and expensive.

--hide--


I will respectfully disagree with you and Cheryl, are either one of you in the healthcare business? I am not. Do you have parents who are on Medicare with a supplement? I do and I will tell you that it is a good program.


I have one question for you and Cheryl, if you become eligible for Social Security in your lifetime will you accept it? I answered it earlier and said yes because I have paid into social security for over 30 years.

LOCKED
Nov 16th 2012 new

(Quote) Mary-814080 said: I will respectfully disagree with you and Cheryl, are either one of you in the healthcare busi...
(Quote) Mary-814080 said:


I will respectfully disagree with you and Cheryl, are either one of you in the healthcare business? I am not. Do you have parents who are on Medicare with a supplement? I do and I will tell you that it is a good program.


I have one question for you and Cheryl, if you become eligible for Social Security in your lifetime will you accept it? I answered it earlier and said yes because I have paid into social security for over 30 years.

--hide--

Hi, Mary. You may disagree with me anytime. I am not in the health care business and have no expertise on this issue. I assume, though, that you read my argument; and the argument doesn't depend on whether one has had good experiences dealing with Medicare. I will take your word for it that it's a good program in that sense. But there's still something wrong with the Medicare program because it's going bankrupt. I suggested that this is a consequence of government getting involved in the health care industry in the first place.

Of course, we should all accept Social Security if we've paid into it. Then again, we also would accept an item that was returned to us after being stolen from us. But we wouldn't say that a thief's program of stealing from people is a "good program." So I don't accept the implication I think you're making, namely, by accepting Social Security one accepts that it's a good program.

LOCKED
Posts 111 - 120 of 200