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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Nov 13th 2012 new
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said: Rae,I have to agree on this. It was absolutely entertaining. It is more than that for me though. I ...
(Quote) AnneMarie-641597 said:

Rae,

I have to agree on this. It was absolutely entertaining. It is more than that for me though. I had stepped away from God for almost ten years. After seeing the movie, I started reading the books, I opened my bible and I went back to church. The errors amused me, led to other questions and more time with the bible. I think there is a lot of good even with the error as long as people are reading the series with the understanding that it is fiction. The teen series was a great read, too.

--hide--


Hi AnneMarie,

Funny thing it, this series also helped lead me into deeper communion with the Church...because I read it and couldn't figure out why my CCD classes had never educated me on this seemingly obvious thing called the "Rapture" . .. seriously, I was a bit ticked off because I thought I hadn't been prepared (ironically I wasn't!). So I started writing down the scripture quotations, and I was going to do some in-depth research, when I came across a posting for the Jeff Cavins Bible Timeline study put on by a local parish. Ah ha! Going from Genesis to the "end times" in a Catholic format, that'll cover it, right? LOL Anyways, the bible study revealed the truth, and the people in the study connected me to a Catholic young adult group that did Eucharistic Adoration. That in turned spawned so many good things in my life, including meeting the gal who introduced my to CM...and years later, Patrick and I discovering each other through CM. It is all connected, and thank you God for the Left Behind series! He can use anything!
Nov 13th 2012 new
(Quote) Liberacion-894835 said: (Quote) Rae-242317 said: Hello Liberacion, To answer many of your question...
(Quote) Liberacion-894835 said:

Quote:
Rae-242317 said:

Hello Liberacion,

To answer many of your questions, the book "The Rapture Trap: A Catholic Response to "End Times" Fever" by Paul Thigpen is a superb resource. The Left Behind series is entertaining reading, but full of theological errors that potentially could lead one astray from sound Catholic doctrine.

As for prophecy telling you the date of Christ's return, I am reminded of the parable of the wise and foolish handmaidens waiting for the bridegroom. Stay awake and be ready, for you do not know the hour that the Lord is coming.

Blessings!



Thanks Rae. You got me first. I was also thinking of that same parable about the 10 virgins waiting for their groom. There was also a Biblical passage about Jesus warning of false prophets. What is happening now in the Middle East, and the Earthquakes, bad weather. hunger and violence everywhere would surely make one thinks that the end of time is near. I think this Bible verse would be one of the readings during the start of Advent. There was also one prophesy I read, but I need to find in what book did I read it so I can have a reference. It is about the Third Anti-Christ, who he is and what he will be doing. I think it was Hal Lindsey's 1970 best seller entitled "The Late Great Planet Earth" It says that the Third Anti-Christ used to be a world leader, who the entire world look up to as as great leader, then something happens that he change gear and became the Anti-Christ. It is said that he wears a turban, typical of a Muslim outfit, slim in built and of a dark skin. Also in the prophesy America will not longer be a super power and would only become an bystander and will not be able to help the world in the battle called "The Armaggedon" Some modern prophets are saying that these things are happening now. Should we be wary about this?

--hide--


In a word, "No."

Our job is to follow the truth. We need to put our trust in Christ and His Bride, the Church, which he gave the Holy Spirit to protect and guide with the leadership of Peter's successor. Speculation on what nationality, race, religion, etc of an "anti-Christ" from a popular author's book...(pretty sure he doesn't have the approval of the Church, please correct me if I'm wrong!)...well let's just say that it only serves to invite division, suspicion, and bigotry into God's family. We must judge a person on their actions, and not on their dress. We must always treat people with the respect and dignity due to any creation of the Father.

I would advise people to put their trust in God--what does God say more than any other command in the Bible? Do not worry, do not be afraid, etc. So let's do so.

Pax et bonum!
Nov 13th 2012 new

Now the next article: Abraham and his Children.

We all know Islam was established by Mohammed in the 6th Century. So all text in the Koran were written during this time. How could they claim to be the descendant of Ishmael, the first son of Abraham and call themselves the "chosen people" and not the Israelites who were descendant of Isaac, also the son of Abraham?

Nov 13th 2012 new
(Quote) Liberacion-894835 said: Now the next article: Abraham and his Children. We all know Islam was established by Mohamm...
(Quote) Liberacion-894835 said:

Now the next article: Abraham and his Children.



We all know Islam was established by Mohammed in the 6th Century. So all text in the Koran were written during this time. How could they claim to be the descendant of Ishmael, the first son of Abraham and call themselves the "chosen people" and not the Israelites who were descendant of Isaac, also the son of Abraham?

--hide--


Hello again Liberacion,

I would direct you to another superb book called "Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics: 100 Questions and Answers" by Daniel Ali and Robert Spencer. It has been awhile since I've read it, and I do not want to give the wrong information.

Both books that I have referenced in this thread carry an "imprimatur" from the Catholic Church. For those not familiar with the word: The nihil obstat and imprimatur are declarations that a book or pamphlet is free of doctrinal or moral error. No implication is contained therein that those who have granted the nihil obstat or imprimatur agree with the contents, opinions or statements expressed.
Nov 13th 2012 new

(Quote) Rae-242317 said: Hello again Liberacion, I would direct you to another superb book called "Inside Isla...
(Quote) Rae-242317 said:

Hello again Liberacion,

I would direct you to another superb book called "Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics: 100 Questions and Answers" by Daniel Ali and Robert Spencer. It has been awhile since I've read it, and I do not want to give the wrong information.

Both books that I have referenced in this thread carry an "imprimatur" from the Catholic Church. For those not familiar with the word: The nihil obstat and imprimatur are declarations that a book or pamphlet is free of doctrinal or moral error. No implication is contained therein that those who have granted the nihil obstat or imprimatur agree with the contents, opinions or statements expressed.
--hide--

Thanks Rae. I am writing down the titles of the books you recommended in this thread. I am a book lover and it has been my habit to read a book before sleeping. Please stay with this thread as we move to the other topics as I know you will have more books to recommend for futher readings, you being a resourceful person. I have this in mind that Mohammed being a merchant traveler between Egypt and Israel must have stumbled upon the Dead Sea Scrolls in one of his trips, probably getting a shelter on a stormy day inside a cave where the books were hidden. He being a seeker must have heard of a story about a man who was crucified and resurrected, and in his search he took interest on the books. It was said that the books when discovered was already in disarray, meaning someone had touched them before being found by that shepherd boy. Muslims said Mohammed spent his time mostly in the mountain caves before he founded Islam, came out from his so called fasting ( a copycat of Jesus Christ's forty day fasting before starting his ministry) and told everyone an Angel instructed him to write the Koran. They said he didn't know how to read nor write, which for a trader between two different speaking countries is unbelievable. I have a copy of the Koran and I saw many discrepancies, but the theme is mostly about a God who will punish anyone who disobey him. One example of a discrepancy is the concept of "Fasting". Fasting to Christian teaching is having no food at all, but in Islam it is only from sunrise to sunset, after which they can eat in the evening like having a feast for forty days. Could it be possible that during his fasting the devil also tested him when he got hungry to turn the stones into bread, yet he could not, thus his concept of fasting is twisted. I have a book listing all the discrepancies of Islam. I forgot the title (my books are all in storage after my divorce - can't access them yet).

Nov 13th 2012 new

(Quote) Liberacion-894835 said: Thanks Rae. I am writing down the titles of the books you recommended in this threa...
(Quote) Liberacion-894835 said:

Thanks Rae. I am writing down the titles of the books you recommended in this thread. I am a book lover and it has been my habit to read a book before sleeping. Please stay with this thread as we move to the other topics as I know you will have more books to recommend for futher readings, you being a resourceful person. I have this in mind that Mohammed being a merchant traveler between Egypt and Israel must have stumbled upon the Dead Sea Scrolls in one of his trips, probably getting a shelter on a stormy day inside a cave where the books were hidden. He being a seeker must have heard of a story about a man who was crucified and resurrected, and in his search he took interest on the books. It was said that the books when discovered was already in disarray, meaning someone had touched them before being found by that shepherd boy. Muslims said Mohammed spent his time mostly in the mountain caves before he founded Islam, came out from his so called fasting ( a copycat of Jesus Christ's forty day fasting before starting his ministry) and told everyone an Angel instructed him to write the Koran. They said he didn't know how to read nor write, which for a trader between two different speaking countries is unbelievable. I have a copy of the Koran and I saw many discrepancies, but the theme is mostly about a God who will punish anyone who disobey him. One example of a discrepancy is the concept of "Fasting". Fasting to Christian teaching is having no food at all, but in Islam it is only from sunrise to sunset, after which they can eat in the evening like having a feast for forty days. Could it be possible that during his fasting the devil also tested him when he got hungry to turn the stones into bread, yet he could not, thus his concept of fasting is twisted. I have a book listing all the discrepancies of Islam. I forgot the title (my books are all in storage after my divorce - can't access them yet).

--hide--


Hi, Liberacion,

According to the author Hilaire Belloc, Mohammed was an heresiarch and Islam began merely as an heresy:

'Mohammedanism was a <heresy>: that is the essential point to grasp before going any further. It began as a heresy, not as a new religion. It was not a pagan contrast with the Church; it was not an alien enemy. It was a perversion of Christian doctrine. It vitality and endurance soon gave it the appearance of a new religion, but those who were contemporary with its rise saw it for what it was_not a denial, but an adaptation and a misuse, of the Christian thing. It differed from most (not from all) heresies in this, that it did not arise within the bounds of the Christian Church. The chief heresiarch, Mohammed himself, was not, like most heresiarchs, a man of Catholic birth and doctrine to begin with. He sprang from pagans. But that which he taught was in the main Catholic doctrine, oversimplified. It was the great Catholic world_on the frontiers of which he lived, whose influence was all around him and whose territories he had known by travel_which inspired his convictions. He came of, and mixed with, the degraded idolaters of the Arabian wilderness, the conquest of which had never seemed worth the Romans' while.

'He took over very few of those old pagan ideas which might have been native to him from his descent. On the contrary, he preached and insisted upon a whole group of ideas which were peculiar to the Catholic Church and distinguished it from the paganism which it had conquered in the Greek and Roman civilization. Thus the very foundation of his teaching was that prime Catholic doctrine, the unity and omnipotence of God. The attributes of God he also took over in the main from Catholic doctrine: the personal nature, the all-goodness, the timelessness, the providence of God, His creative power as the origin of all things, and His sustenance of all things by His power alone. The world of good spirits and angels and of evil spirits in rebellion against God was a part of the teaching, with a chief evil spirit, such as Christendom had recognized. Mohammed preached with insistence that prime Catholic doctrine, on the human side_the immortality of the soul and its responsibility for actions in this life, coupled with the consequent doctrine of punishment and reward after death.

'If anyone sets down those points that orthodox Catholicism has in common with Mohammedanism, and those points only, one might imagine if one went no further that there should have been no cause of quarrel. Mohammed would almost seem in this aspect to be a sort of missionary, preaching and spreading by the energy of his character the chief and fundamental doctrines of the Catholic Church among those who had hitherto been degraded pagans of the Desert. He gave to Our Lord the highest reverence, and to Our Lady also, for that matter. On the day of judgment (another Catholic idea which he taught) it was Our Lord, according to Mohammed, who would be the judge of mankind, not he, Mohammed. The Mother of Christ, Our Lady, "the Lady Miriam" was ever for him the first of womankind. His followers even got from the early fathers some vague hint of her Immaculate Conception.[1]

'But the central point where this new heresy struck home with a mortal blow against Catholic tradition was a full denial of the Incarnation.

'Mohammed did not merely take the first steps toward that denial, as the Arians and their followers had done; he advanced a clear affirmation, full and complete, against the whole doctrine of an incarnate God. He taught that Our Lord was the greatest of all the prophets, but still only a prophet: a man like other men. He eliminated the Trinity altogether.

'With that denial of the Incarnation went the whole sacramental structure. He refused to know anything of the Eucharist, with its Real Presence; he stopped the sacrifice of the Mass, and therefore the institution of a special priesthood. In other words, he, like so many other lesser heresiarchs, founded his heresy on simplification.

'Catholic doctrine was true (he seemed to say), but it had become encumbered with false accretions; it had become complicated by needless man-made additions, including the idea that its founder was Divine, and the growth of a parasitical caste of priests who battened on a late, imagined, system of Sacraments which they alone could administer. All those corrupt accretions must be swept away.

'There is thus a very great deal in common between the enthusiasm with which Mohammed's teaching attacked the priesthood, the Mass and the sacraments, and the enthusiasm with which Calvinism, the central motive force of the Reformation, did the same. As we all know, the new teaching relaxed the marriage laws_but in practice this did not affect the mass of his followers who still remained monogamous. It made divorce as easy as possible, for the sacramental idea of marriage disappeared. It insisted upon the equality of men, and it necessarily had that further factor in which it resembled Calvinism_the sense of predestination, the sense of fate; of what the followers of John Knox were always calling "the immutable decrees of God."'

Nov 13th 2012 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Hi, Liberacion,According to the author Hilaire Belloc, Mohammed was an heresiar...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Hi, Liberacion,

According to the author Hilaire Belloc, Mohammed was an heresiarch and Islam began merely as an heresy:

'Mohammedanism was a <heresy>: that is the essential point to grasp before going any further. It began as a heresy, not as a new religion. It was not a pagan contrast with the Church; it was not an alien enemy. It was a perversion of Christian doctrine. It vitality and endurance soon gave it the appearance of a new religion, but those who were contemporary with its rise saw it for what it was_not a denial, but an adaptation and a misuse, of the Christian thing. It differed from most (not from all) heresies in this, that it did not arise within the bounds of the Christian Church. The chief heresiarch, Mohammed himself, was not, like most heresiarchs, a man of Catholic birth and doctrine to begin with. He sprang from pagans. But that which he taught was in the main Catholic doctrine, oversimplified. It was the great Catholic world_on the frontiers of which he lived, whose influence was all around him and whose territories he had known by travel_which inspired his convictions. He came of, and mixed with, the degraded idolaters of the Arabian wilderness, the conquest of which had never seemed worth the Romans' while.

'He took over very few of those old pagan ideas which might have been native to him from his descent. On the contrary, he preached and insisted upon a whole group of ideas which were peculiar to the Catholic Church and distinguished it from the paganism which it had conquered in the Greek and Roman civilization. Thus the very foundation of his teaching was that prime Catholic doctrine, the unity and omnipotence of God. The attributes of God he also took over in the main from Catholic doctrine: the personal nature, the all-goodness, the timelessness, the providence of God, His creative power as the origin of all things, and His sustenance of all things by His power alone. The world of good spirits and angels and of evil spirits in rebellion against God was a part of the teaching, with a chief evil spirit, such as Christendom had recognized. Mohammed preached with insistence that prime Catholic doctrine, on the human side_the immortality of the soul and its responsibility for actions in this life, coupled with the consequent doctrine of punishment and reward after death.

'If anyone sets down those points that orthodox Catholicism has in common with Mohammedanism, and those points only, one might imagine if one went no further that there should have been no cause of quarrel. Mohammed would almost seem in this aspect to be a sort of missionary, preaching and spreading by the energy of his character the chief and fundamental doctrines of the Catholic Church among those who had hitherto been degraded pagans of the Desert. He gave to Our Lord the highest reverence, and to Our Lady also, for that matter. On the day of judgment (another Catholic idea which he taught) it was Our Lord, according to Mohammed, who would be the judge of mankind, not he, Mohammed. The Mother of Christ, Our Lady, "the Lady Miriam" was ever for him the first of womankind. His followers even got from the early fathers some vague hint of her Immaculate Conception.[1]

'But the central point where this new heresy struck home with a mortal blow against Catholic tradition was a full denial of the Incarnation.

'Mohammed did not merely take the first steps toward that denial, as the Arians and their followers had done; he advanced a clear affirmation, full and complete, against the whole doctrine of an incarnate God. He taught that Our Lord was the greatest of all the prophets, but still only a prophet: a man like other men. He eliminated the Trinity altogether.

'With that denial of the Incarnation went the whole sacramental structure. He refused to know anything of the Eucharist, with its Real Presence; he stopped the sacrifice of the Mass, and therefore the institution of a special priesthood. In other words, he, like so many other lesser heresiarchs, founded his heresy on simplification.

'Catholic doctrine was true (he seemed to say), but it had become encumbered with false accretions; it had become complicated by needless man-made additions, including the idea that its founder was Divine, and the growth of a parasitical caste of priests who battened on a late, imagined, system of Sacraments which they alone could administer. All those corrupt accretions must be swept away.

'There is thus a very great deal in common between the enthusiasm with which Mohammed's teaching attacked the priesthood, the Mass and the sacraments, and the enthusiasm with which Calvinism, the central motive force of the Reformation, did the same. As we all know, the new teaching relaxed the marriage laws_but in practice this did not affect the mass of his followers who still remained monogamous. It made divorce as easy as possible, for the sacramental idea of marriage disappeared. It insisted upon the equality of men, and it necessarily had that further factor in which it resembled Calvinism_the sense of predestination, the sense of fate; of what the followers of John Knox were always calling "the immutable decrees of God."'

--hide--
I am really saddened to see young girls marrying Muslims through false promises by the Muslim men. Three of my students here did, Just last week when I went to New York PitchFest (I was one of the attendees). I met Muslim women who are here in the US who wrote books about the abuses they underwent with their Muslim husband. One gave me a book entitled "Tortured in the Name of Islam" where she chronicled her imprisonment in Iran, her torture experiences, and how she and her family escaped and now lives in the US. They converted to Christianity and assumed different names. The other one was about the emotional, physical, and verbal abuses she underwent with her Muslim husband, now she is divorced and filed a restraining order. Statistics showed that men converts to Islam because they can dominate women. During the Irag war I read news about an Imam (equivalent to our priest) killing openly another Muslim and remains free - as he killed in the name of Allah. Going back to my previous post about Mohammed's 40 day fasting. One of the temptations of the devil to Jesus was to give him the wealth of the whole world, if Jesus worship him, could it be that the said Angel that visited Mohammed during his fasting was the devil telling him to worship him and he and his followers will have all the riches of the world - the black gold - the oil. Inside the Ka-aba in Mecca is a black stone ( a hardened crude oil) that the Muslim worship.

Nov 15th 2012 new
(Quote) Rae-242317 said: Hello again Liberacion, I would direct you to another superb book called "Inside Islam:...
(Quote) Rae-242317 said:

Hello again Liberacion,



I would direct you to another superb book called "Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics: 100 Questions and Answers" by Daniel Ali and Robert Spencer. It has been awhile since I've read it, and I do not want to give the wrong information.



Both books that I have referenced in this thread carry an "imprimatur" from the Catholic Church. For those not familiar with the word: The nihil obstat or imprimatur are declarations that a book or pamphlet is free of doctrinal or moral error. No implication is contained therein that those who have granted the nihil obstat or imprimatur agree with the contents, opinions or statements expressed.
--hide--


Oh dear, don't post when you are tired or don't have the source in front of youduck. I bolded an incorrect statement above. "The Rapture Trap" does indeed have the nihil obstat or imprimatur. The "Inside Islam" book does not. Whether it was submitted for the nihil obstat or imprimatur or not, I do not know. However, the foreward of the "Inside Islam" book is by Fr. Mitch Pacwa, a noted Catholic theologian and contributor to EWTN. I obtained this book at a Catholic conference, and it is published by Ascension Press, which is a Catholic publishing company. Daniel Ali is a convert from Islam to Catholicism.

Regarding the rest of the OP's "facts" about Mohammed, many of those are common misconceptions, and are inaccurate--please see the "Inside Islam" book for specifics. When we debate, if we start with false premises, our entire arguement falls apart, and we are then viewed as ignorant people who have no business evangelizing--it actually harms our case in the long run.

Bravo to Chelsea for the thoroughness of the information presented!

And once again my apologies on my previous inaccurate statement...don't ever want to have that millstone around my neck if I get thrown into the sea....
Nov 15th 2012 new

(Quote) Rae-242317 said: Oh dear, don't post when you are tired or don't have the source in front of you. I bolded ...
(Quote) Rae-242317 said:

Oh dear, don't post when you are tired or don't have the source in front of you. I bolded an incorrect statement above. "The Rapture Trap" does indeed have the nihil obstat or imprimatur. The "Inside Islam" book does not. Whether it was submitted for the nihil obstat or imprimatur or not, I do not know. However, the foreward of the "Inside Islam" book is by Fr. Mitch Pacwa, a noted Catholic theologian and contributor to EWTN. I obtained this book at a Catholic conference, and it is published by Ascension Press, which is a Catholic publishing company. Daniel Ali is a convert from Islam to Catholicism.

Regarding the rest of the OP's "facts" about Mohammed, many of those are common misconceptions, and are inaccurate--please see the "Inside Islam" book for specifics. When we debate, if we start with false premises, our entire arguement falls apart, and we are then viewed as ignorant people who have no business evangelizing--it actually harms our case in the long run.

Bravo to Chelsea for the thoroughness of the information presented!

And once again my apologies on my previous inaccurate statement...don't ever want to have that millstone around my neck if I get thrown into the sea....
--hide--
No Problem Rae. We are here to discuss what we little know about a topic hoping or expecting readers who know better would join and enlighten us with the truth. Looking at what is happening now. particulary in the Middle East and in our country, we could not help but anticipate that there will be more troubles coming ahead. There is a thread here that debates over American going into a Socialistic country under the Current Events Room and we are hearing or reading news about secession by some States from the Federation, and we have here a newly re-elected Muslim President (He is a Muslim - pretended to be converted to Christianity for his political ambition - but his actions in the last four years showed some leaning to the Muslims). While we here in the US are dividing, in the Middle East the Muslim brotherhood are uniting and gaining momentum. Would it not be possbile that the man in the White House is preparing for that scenario where America becomes weak, unable to protect herself from the attack of the Muslim brotherdood? This is a strategy called "Divide and Conquer" as in other words 'United we stand, Divided we fall."

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