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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

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Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Jan-921295 said: God gave us free will and a brain that is capable of deep, personal and social thought. I do not be...
(Quote) Jan-921295 said:

God gave us free will and a brain that is capable of deep, personal and social thought. I do not believe that it is a mortal sin as of now for me to support a prochoice individual b/c right now abortion is legal. I also believe that no one is prochoice, that all wish there was another option. But I do not see Catholic churches across the nation providing care and support for the young mother and her baby. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem! When we are willing to love and shelter the Mother and baby until the Mother is able to care for the baby or an adoptive family is found then we would see a large decrease in abortions. Women who have abortions suffer for the rest of their lives. No one wins this one, so to cast sin onto Obama supporters b/c of the democratic platform sounds like something out of the middle ages. jan

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In God's eyes do you seriously think he cares that the supreme court of the US declared abortion "Legal". What does that have to do abortion being inherently wrong.

Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) James-17080 said: (Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: (Quote) Joe-787295 said:
(Quote) James-17080 said:

Quote:
Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
Joe-787295 said:


Well, when given only two choices; the unborn had a much better chance with Romney than they did Obama. So many accuse Romney of flip flopping on the issue of abortion.

I pray everyday that more people flip flop to the side of life.

When a conservative changes positions, they are doing anything to get elected, when liberals do it they are open minded. How about Obama and gay marriage. Stated it was his position that he was against it, then wow; election #2 - comes out in support of it. What a sincere intellectual this man is.


Plus it is a liberal lie that he flipped flopped on it....he did what he could in a very liberal state....MA was 4 liberals to every 1 conservative and the media ate him up there. We posted sites here that showed what he tried to do to promote the prolife laws....but people who wanted to vote for Obama on here still kept up with the lie telling...and they will have to face that some day when they meet their maker. Romney promised from day one of this election not to use tax dollars to fund planned parenthood...what more did anyone need who had their soul in the right place. At any rate, what he was trying to make his election about this time was about the economy...he kept directing it back to this since it is a mess and Obama's team kept attacking him on a personal level. I am really sick when I think of the people who voted for a man who not only believes it is ok to murder babies...inside or outside of the womb but a man who lied and attacked a candidate who is basically a really decent man with things like ads showing him killing people, etc. I do think these people knew better deep down and whether it is pride that kept them from acknowledging the bishops or a lack of being able to discern what they bishops were saying....well, that remains to be seen in the next life, I guess.




Right, Cheryl, he didn't flip-flop on it. You didn't follow the news too carefully, did you? You're real free with your accusations, aren't you? If you are free to write that what I wrote is a "liberal lie", am I free to write that what you wrote is a a far-right delusion?

George Romney, Willard Romney's old man, was in fact a decent man, and if George was running, we wouldn't be arguing. George was honest, hard-working, and a true American industrial and political hero. One cannot say the same for Willard. George is the one who started the tradition of releasing his income tax returns for public scrutiny. Except for the two he released, Willard is the one who broke it. Willard's wife noted that they wouldn't release any more, because the more they released, the more they got attacked.

Kind of makes you wonder what is in those tax returns, doesn't it?


James ☺

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www.aboutmittromney.com


This site really sums up how he has always been prolife...really though we talked about this all before....he got bad press as does any conservative....seeing as how he was in a completely liberal state. However, none of that matters...the most proabortion candidate who believes it is ok to kill babies even after they are born and voted three times for a bill to do that and that babies are a punishment and even calls them "fetus" once born...well, he won and can continue to use our tax dollars to fund planned parenthood here and overseas.

Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Jan-921295 said: . I also believe that no one is prochoice, that all wish there was another option.
(Quote) Jan-921295 said:

. I also believe that no one is prochoice, that all wish there was another option.

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Pro-choice is a silly word anyway. People are either pro-abortion (i.e they believe killing a baby should be legal) or pro-life. And actually, there are many many people in this world who not only want abortion legal, they want more abortions. They work at Planned Parenthood clinics and are schooled in ways to make abortion more common. Read "Unplanned" by Abby Johnson. She is only one of many workers who have left Planned Parenthood and told about how they run their businesses. They know if they promote promiscuity, sooner or later the girls will goof on their contraceptions and need abortions. That is where they make their money. I am not saying there are not some kind workers at Planned parenthood too, but the company's philosphy is to maximize their abortion business.

Another reason these workers are actually pro-abortion, not pro-choice, is because they get very angry when people outside the clinics offer the girls going into the clinics any choices other than abortion.

Nov 26th 2012 new

The only things that Obama voters are guilty of is that they believe in Social Justice, the rights of the poor and marginalized, and support fair working conditions for the middle class.

Nov 26th 2012 new

(Quote) James-17080 said: Hi Paul et alia,Maybe, Paul, maybe. Or, maybe the vote was an indirect indictment of w...
(Quote) James-17080 said:


Hi Paul et alia,

Maybe, Paul, maybe. Or, maybe the vote was an indirect indictment of whatever bishop actually told his flock that voting for Obama would endanger their souls. Maybe.

James ☺

--hide--

After thinking about your response some more it suddenly dawned on me that you used a word that applies here. Unfortunately, not the way you use it.

Yes, James, it is an indictment but not of the Bishops who in fact took a morally correct position. It is an indictment of all those Catholics, 54% of them, whose understanding of morality is so poor.

And yes James, in many ways that is the fault of the Bishops we had before that allowed the education of the laity to fall to such an abysmal state. But it is just as much a fault of the laity who fail to even try to learn about the faith they profess, or who believe their grasp of moral principles is superior to that of the Bishops.

Nov 26th 2012 new

(Quote) Allen-921512 said: The only things that Obama voters are guilty of is that they believe in Social Justice, the right...
(Quote) Allen-921512 said:

The only things that Obama voters are guilty of is that they believe in Social Justice, the rights of the poor and marginalized, and support fair working conditions for the middle class.

--hide--

As Pope John Paul II said, to paraphrase, if the right to life of even the most vulnerable is not protected, all other rights become meaningless.

What part of that don't you understand?

Nov 26th 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) James-17080 said: Hi Paul et alia,Maybe, Paul, maybe. O...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
James-17080 said:


Hi Paul et alia,

Maybe, Paul, maybe. Or, maybe the vote was an indirect indictment of whatever bishop actually told his flock that voting for Obama would endanger their souls. Maybe.

James ☺


After thinking about your response some more it suddenly dawned on me that you used a word that applies here. Unfortunately, not the way you use it.

Yes, James, it is an indictment but not of the Bishops who in fact took a morally correct position. It is an indictment of all those Catholics, 54% of them, whose understanding of morality is so poor.

And yes James, in many ways that is the fault of the Bishops we had before that allowed the education of the laity to fall to such an abysmal state. But it is just as much a fault of the laity who fail to even try to learn about the faith they profess, or who believe their grasp of moral principles is superior to that of the Bishops.

--hide--


No, Paul, the bishops took a morally dubius position.

And it suddenly dawned on me (oh heck, no it didn't) that this whole question can easily be turned around. Are the bishops guilty of a mortal sin? Are Romney voters guilty of a mortal sin? And if the bishops aren't guilty of a mortal sin, can they at least be guilty of crass stupidity?

Romney said he wasn't going to do anything about abortion. He said that. Why would I vote for such a person? Why would the bishops insist that I do so?

Something is going on here, and it has little to do with morals or religion, unless we're talking about mendacity.

James ☺

Nov 26th 2012 new

(Quote) Michael-556947 said:
(Quote) Michael-556947 said:

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan

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Aw, isn't that cute!

James ☺

Nov 26th 2012 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: (Quote) James-17080 said: (Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
James-17080 said:

Quote:
Cheryl-409772 said:

Quote:
Joe-787295 said:


Well, when given only two choices; the unborn had a much better chance with Romney than they did Obama. So many accuse Romney of flip flopping on the issue of abortion.

I pray everyday that more people flip flop to the side of life.

When a conservative changes positions, they are doing anything to get elected, when liberals do it they are open minded. How about Obama and gay marriage. Stated it was his position that he was against it, then wow; election #2 - comes out in support of it. What a sincere intellectual this man is.


Plus it is a liberal lie that he flipped flopped on it....he did what he could in a very liberal state....MA was 4 liberals to every 1 conservative and the media ate him up there. We posted sites here that showed what he tried to do to promote the prolife laws....but people who wanted to vote for Obama on here still kept up with the lie telling...and they will have to face that some day when they meet their maker. Romney promised from day one of this election not to use tax dollars to fund planned parenthood...what more did anyone need who had their soul in the right place. At any rate, what he was trying to make his election about this time was about the economy...he kept directing it back to this since it is a mess and Obama's team kept attacking him on a personal level. I am really sick when I think of the people who voted for a man who not only believes it is ok to murder babies...inside or outside of the womb but a man who lied and attacked a candidate who is basically a really decent man with things like ads showing him killing people, etc. I do think these people knew better deep down and whether it is pride that kept them from acknowledging the bishops or a lack of being able to discern what they bishops were saying....well, that remains to be seen in the next life, I guess.




Right, Cheryl, he didn't flip-flop on it. You didn't follow the news too carefully, did you? You're real free with your accusations, aren't you? If you are free to write that what I wrote is a "liberal lie", am I free to write that what you wrote is a a far-right delusion?

George Romney, Willard Romney's old man, was in fact a decent man, and if George was running, we wouldn't be arguing. George was honest, hard-working, and a true American industrial and political hero. One cannot say the same for Willard. George is the one who started the tradition of releasing his income tax returns for public scrutiny. Except for the two he released, Willard is the one who broke it. Willard's wife noted that they wouldn't release any more, because the more they released, the more they got attacked.

Kind of makes you wonder what is in those tax returns, doesn't it?


James ☺


www.aboutmittromney.com


This site really sums up how he has always been prolife...really though we talked about this all before....he got bad press as does any conservative....seeing as how he was in a completely liberal state. However, none of that matters...the most proabortion candidate who believes it is ok to kill babies even after they are born and voted three times for a bill to do that and that babies are a punishment and even calls them "fetus" once born...well, he won and can continue to use our tax dollars to fund planned parenthood here and overseas.

--hide--


Nce propaganda piece. Here's s source that is perhaps a little less biased:

www.greeleygazette.com

James ☺

Nov 26th 2012 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: (Quote) James-17080 said: Hi David et alia,I certainly agr...
(Quote) David-364112 said:

Quote:
James-17080 said:



Hi David et alia,

I certainly agree.

I find myself wondering why this was posted here in the first place.

Jim ☺



because many people make a seriously stupid equation of politics and religion. there may be plenty of overlap between one political party and the truths of our faith, but NEVER is any one political party or movement entirely representative of the faith. to equate ephemeral politics with the immortal and immutable God is blasphemy. it is also IDIOTIC. God is no more a republican than he was a supporter of generalissimo franco and his spanish fascists who were seen by many as saviors of the church. look what they turned into!

--hide--


Good point. I wish I had thought of that. That's my problem. I don't think fast enough.

But I do have enough wit to realize we've been doing this dance every four years since 1976. And hardly anything gets changed. We are being played for fools.

James ☺

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