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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

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11/24/2012 new
The problem is faith. It also depends on the Orthodox jurisdiction. I was told the opposite by a priest of the Moscow Patriarchate in the U.S.
11/24/2012 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: The problem is faith. It also depends on the Orthodox jurisdiction. I was told the opposite by a priest o...
(Quote) John-220051 said: The problem is faith. It also depends on the Orthodox jurisdiction. I was told the opposite by a priest of the Moscow Patriarchate in the U.S.
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That may be true but I wonder if among the Orthodox in this country there is the tendency to move towards the 3 largest jurisdictions and that's the reason. The jurisdiction you gave is relatively small compared to the 3 largest -- which numerically make up most Orthodox in the country and it's their seminaries that are full.

11/24/2012 new

(Quote) Eric-114571 said: Obviously I can't know for sure but let me test your opinion on that by bouncing it up...
(Quote) Eric-114571 said:



Obviously I can't know for sure but let me test your opinion on that by bouncing it up against this fact here in my diocese:

2 years ago the number of active deacons equaled the number of active priests. One of the major differences between the 2 groups of men applying is that the deacons are almost all married. Now 2 years later the number of deacons likely is greater than priests. The party line is that the priest shortage is not due to celibacy but this seems to speak to the contrary. Likewise a major difference between Eastern Orthodox and Latin Rite priests is celibacy. One of the major EO jurisdictions has a website that has a button that allows one to ask questions. I submitted the question and asked if they have a priest shortage. Answer: quite the contrary. Seminary enrollment is at record highs.

More deacons than priest vocations.
The # of EO priest vocations vs. Latin Rite.

It's not celibacy... It's not celibacy... It's not celibacy. Rome keeps saying this yet I don't see any facts that seem to back that up.

I want to be clear that I am loyal to the Pope and his authority. Celibacy is purely a disciplinary decision -- I fully support his right to continue to practice of celibacy but just think it's not working well.

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I think you missed my point, and I apologize for not making it well enough.

My point was that, whatever tradition of priestly continence is followed, the same model of vocation and testing by the Church applies. A man must discern the call of Christ to follow Him in this way, but that path is guided and the reality of that vocation is discerned by the Church through the seminaries and those that form future priests.

My point about the vocations crisis was that, ultimately, it was largely due to the faults of those meant to form those who serve at the altar. This has been documented in major works such as Michael Rose's "Goodbye, Good Men." www.amazon.com

11/24/2012 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: The problem is faith. It also depends on the Orthodox jurisdiction. I was told the opposite by a priest o...
(Quote) John-220051 said: The problem is faith. It also depends on the Orthodox jurisdiction. I was told the opposite by a priest of the Moscow Patriarchate in the U.S.
--hide--


That may be but I have to wonder if the problem is faith then why is it that those who can have holy orders and be married (Catholic deacons, Orthodox priests) (while there are exceptions as you noted they are in the minority) are having many more vocations?

11/24/2012 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: I think you missed my point, and I apologize for not making it well enough. My p...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

I think you missed my point, and I apologize for not making it well enough.

My point was that, whatever tradition of priestly continence is followed, the same model of vocation and testing by the Church applies. A man must discern the call of Christ to follow Him in this way, but that path is guided and the reality of that vocation is discerned by the Church through the seminaries and those that form future priests.

My point about the vocations crisis was that, ultimately, it was largely due to the faults of those meant to form those who serve at the altar. This has been documented in major works such as Michael Rose's "Goodbye, Good Men." www.amazon.com

--hide--


Thanks for clarifying what you meant. But my question remains. Why is it that those can be married and enter into holy orders (Catholic deacons, EO priests) are doing so in far greater numbers than those who cannot (Latin Rite priests)? The party line is that it's not celibacy but that is the one major difference. Again, in my own diocese there are now more active deacons than priest and that trend isn't changing.

11/24/2012 new
Celibacy in the East is tied to monasticism and holiness. The West seems to have forgotten all about asceticism and its connection to holiness, especially in the age of Kinsey.
11/24/2012 new

(Quote) Eric-114571 said: Thanks for clarifying what you meant. But my question remains. Why is it that those can be...
(Quote) Eric-114571 said:



Thanks for clarifying what you meant. But my question remains. Why is it that those can be married and enter into holy orders (Catholic deacons, EO priests) are doing so in far greater numbers than those who cannot (Latin Rite priests)? The party line is that it's not celibacy but that is the one major difference. Again, in my own diocese there are now more active deacons than priest and that trend isn't changing.

--hide--

First off, where is this occuring? If you are talking about Eastern Europe, I might say it has to do with the revival of the open practice of Orthodox and Eastern Catholic faith after decades under communist regimes that tried the faith of many.

In America, the Latin Rite seminaries are recovering the number of vocations, but the one Eastern Rite Seminary, St. Cyril & Methodius Seminary in Pittsburgh, is lacking vocations. I don't know about the Ukrainian Church Seminary in Washington D.C.

11/24/2012 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: First off, where is this occuring? If you are talking about Eastern Europe, I might say...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

First off, where is this occuring? If you are talking about Eastern Europe, I might say it has to do with the revival of the open practice of Orthodox and Eastern Catholic faith after decades under communist regimes that tried the faith of many.

In America, the Latin Rite seminaries are recovering the number of vocations, but the one Eastern Rite Seminary, St. Cyril & Methodius Seminary in Pittsburgh, is lacking vocations. I don't know about the Ukrainian Church Seminary in Washington D.C.

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This is occurring right here in the US with respect to vocations for EO priests. The EO seminaries in this country are full -- got this from the information officer for one of the 3 largest EO jurisdictions. More deacons that priests: happening right here in Louisville, KY in our diocese.

St. Cyril & Methodius seminary: again what's different between them (not getting vocations) and the EO in this country. They both use the same liturgy. One has married clergy and one does not.

11/24/2012 new

(Quote) Eric-114571 said: This is occurring right here in the US with respect to vocations for EO priests. The EO se...
(Quote) Eric-114571 said:



This is occurring right here in the US with respect to vocations for EO priests. The EO seminaries in this country are full -- got this from the information officer for one of the 3 largest EO jurisdictions. More deacons that priests: happening right here in Louisville, KY in our diocese.

St. Cyril & Methodius seminary: again what's different between them (not getting vocations) and the EO in this country. They both use the same liturgy. One has married clergy and one does not.

--hide--

As to the situation with St. Cyril and Methodius, the Eastern Rites are a small church in this country. There are other factors as well.

11/25/2012 new
Yes. But the average age of Byzantine-rite Catholic parishes is over 70. Most of the youth has been lost to secularism, to the Roman Church or to the Orthodox Church.
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