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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

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I have heard a lot of accounts now of the exodus from the Catholic Church which was supposedly caused by the "paedophilia scandal."

What I want to know, but no one seems to be asking about, is why a person would abandon Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is really, truly and substantially present to us in the Eucharist, over the sin of some other man? I mean, how does that make sense? Abandon God because a priest sinned? When did God promise impeccable pastors?...and Do these same individuals who abandon Christ stop associations with the parents of families who had the abuse reported to them by their children but ignored it for whatever reason?

One of the big things in the so-called "paedophilia scandal" that boggles my mind is why no one is upset with these parents who knew reports of the abuse or suspected immodest/unchaste behavior was going on...and still allowed their children private contact with these priests. How does that make any sense?

Sure, the uncovering of the sin to the light of day is disturbing and troubling, but how many parents have actually changed how they live their lives by the knowledge of this sin? How many parents have become vigilant and stopped allowing unsupervised access (I'm not referring to the Sacrament of Penance, but rather unchaperoned gatherings or field trips) of the priests to their children?

To my knowledge, at my parish, other than the VIRTUS training given to diocesan workers on how to reckognize signs of impropriety between adults and children and prevent escalation, the parents are pretty much complacent in allowing their children to be taken out of sight by priests and lay diocesan staff. How does that make any sense? I mean, there is this huge problem that practically everyone is now aware of, so what has changed on the part of parents?

I am asking this seriously, because I want to know seriously.

I'm not observing any change in my corner of the world on the part of parents, but maybe others are. I'd love to hear what anyone else has observed, or found in regard to my questions.

Thanks...

11/18/2012 new

What I'm saying of priests, goes also for deacons and lay staff of the dioceses who were proven or admitted to having abused children in this fashion as well. So, please read my questions with that knowledge.

11/18/2012 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: I have heard a lot of accounts now of the exodus from the Catholic Church which was supposedly ...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

I have heard a lot of accounts now of the exodus from the Catholic Church which was supposedly caused by the "paedophilia scandal."

What I want to know, but no one seems to be asking about, is why a person would abandon Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is really, truly and substantially present to us in the Eucharist, over the sin of some other man? I mean, how does that make sense? Abandon God because a priest sinned? When did God promise impeccable pastors?...and Do these same individuals who abandon Christ stop associations with the parents of families who had the abuse reported to them by their children but ignored it for whatever reason?

One of the big things in the so-called "paedophilia scandal" that boggles my mind is why no one is upset with these parents who knew reports of the abuse or suspected immodest/unchaste behavior was going on...and still allowed their children private contact with these priests. How does that make any sense?

Sure, the uncovering of the sin to the light of day is disturbing and troubling, but how many parents have actually changed how they live their lives by the knowledge of this sin? How many parents have become vigilant and stopped allowing unsupervised access (I'm not referring to the Sacrament of Penance, but rather unchaperoned gatherings or field trips) of the priests to their children?

To my knowledge, at my parish, other than the VIRTUS training given to diocesan workers on how to reckognize signs of impropriety between adults and children and prevent escalation, the parents are pretty much complacent in allowing their children to be taken out of sight by priests and lay diocesan staff. How does that make any sense? I mean, there is this huge problem that practically everyone is now aware of, so what has changed on the part of parents?

I am asking this seriously, because I want to know seriously.

I'm not observing any change in my corner of the world on the part of parents, but maybe others are. I'd love to hear what anyone else has observed, or found in regard to my questions.

Thanks...

--hide--

Why would a person abadon the Church as a result of the scandal? Propbably because they knew and lacked a true functional knowledge of the faith they professed.

11/19/2012 new

Shortly after all of this happened anyone who volunteered/worked with the children (such as youth groups, sunday school) had to be background checked, go through training, this included learning how not to put yourself in a position where you could be accused of improper behavior. It was stressed to never be out of line of site of another adult when speaking privately with a child. As far as parenting goes, it was stressed to speak to and ask questions of your child in order to be a part of their life and understand what was going on. And as a parent, many don't know where to turn when someone like a priest sins against a child. It often isn't an issue of not believing the child but of not believing someone like a priest is capable of that kind of behavior. Or of thinking no one will believe you if you report it to the authorities

11/19/2012 new

If I were aware of accusations against a person, I would not let them within 100 feet of my children. However, most sexual abuse is not happening by priests, it usually happens by somebody close to the victim and trusted by the family. If it were so easy to spot an abuser, I am sure there would be a lot less victims as I can't imagine any parent that would knowingly put a child in harms way.


Hopefully, you will never have somebody close to you experience it.

11/19/2012 new

(Quote) Marirose-887295 said: If I were aware of accusations against a person, I would not let them within 100 feet of my ch...
(Quote) Marirose-887295 said:

If I were aware of accusations against a person, I would not let them within 100 feet of my children. However, most sexual abuse is not happening by priests, it usually happens by somebody close to the victim and trusted by the family. If it were so easy to spot an abuser, I am sure there would be a lot less victims as I can't imagine any parent that would knowingly put a child in harms way.


Hopefully, you will never have somebody close to you experience it.

--hide--

11/19/2012 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: I have heard a lot of accounts now of the exodus from the Catholic Church which was supposedly ...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:

I have heard a lot of accounts now of the exodus from the Catholic Church which was supposedly caused by the "paedophilia scandal."

What I want to know, but no one seems to be asking about, is why a person would abandon Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is really, truly and substantially present to us in the Eucharist, over the sin of some other man? I mean, how does that make sense? Abandon God because a priest sinned? When did God promise impeccable pastors?...and Do these same individuals who abandon Christ stop associations with the parents of families who had the abuse reported to them by their children but ignored it for whatever reason?

One of the big things in the so-called "paedophilia scandal" that boggles my mind is why no one is upset with these parents who knew reports of the abuse or suspected immodest/unchaste behavior was going on...and still allowed their children private contact with these priests. How does that make any sense?

Sure, the uncovering of the sin to the light of day is disturbing and troubling, but how many parents have actually changed how they live their lives by the knowledge of this sin? How many parents have become vigilant and stopped allowing unsupervised access (I'm not referring to the Sacrament of Penance, but rather unchaperoned gatherings or field trips) of the priests to their children?

To my knowledge, at my parish, other than the VIRTUS training given to diocesan workers on how to reckognize signs of impropriety between adults and children and prevent escalation, the parents are pretty much complacent in allowing their children to be taken out of sight by priests and lay diocesan staff. How does that make any sense? I mean, there is this huge problem that practically everyone is now aware of, so what has changed on the part of parents?

I am asking this seriously, because I want to know seriously.

I'm not observing any change in my corner of the world on the part of parents, but maybe others are. I'd love to hear what anyone else has observed, or found in regard to my questions.

Thanks...

--hide--

Chelsea, I forgot to add some important points.

First there was no pedophilia involved. I forgot the actual term but in almost all cases the abuse involved boys, most of whom were teenagers. But that is a mere technical point that does not lessen the horrors of the abuse. But the media and the lawyers prefer to ignore that technicality as pedophilia sounds worse especially when you want to rile people up against the Church and win those big cash awards, most of which goes to the lawyers rather than the victims.

A study, of the whole situation concluded, among its findings, that the root cause of the problem was the homosexuality of the guilty priests. The Bishops prefer to not address that publicly because they would then be accused of being homophobic.

The reason Catholic parents continue to send their children to Catholic schools and churches is the same reason parents everywhere continue to send their children to public schools, Protestant children activities, scouting, etc. where statistically they are far more likely to be abused than at any Catholic operation. And the same reason they still let those weird family members and live-in boyfriends have access to their kids who are the most likely of all categories to abuse the kids.

And the final reason, is that even the Church's enemies in this country, admit that because of the steps the Bishops have taken since this whole mess exploded in their faces are the most effective found in all similar institutions. So that a child is safer in Catholic Churches, schools and youth activities then any where else.

Does that mean it won't happen again? Nope! Although the Church is of God, it is in the world. In the world it is filled with fallen men and women. Being a Priest or Nun or other religious does not automatically make anyone a saint. So there will always be those who commit these types of horrible actions and even worse ones. That is human nature.

11/19/2012 new

(Quote) Marirose-887295 said: If I were aware of accusations against a person, I would not let them within 100 feet of my ch...
(Quote) Marirose-887295 said:

If I were aware of accusations against a person, I would not let them within 100 feet of my children. However, most sexual abuse is not happening by priests, it usually happens by somebody close to the victim and trusted by the family. If it were so easy to spot an abuser, I am sure there would be a lot less victims as I can't imagine any parent that would knowingly put a child in harms way.


Hopefully, you will never have somebody close to you experience it.

--hide--

Not through the church, but I have had someone very dear to me go through this. Depending on the degree and the shade of gray, who you reported it to, and all the he said she said stuff, it can take forever to get anywhere be very daunting for the parent and traumatizing to the child.
And like you I would not/will not let anyone with accusations against them anywhere near my child.

11/19/2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Chelsea, I forgot to add some important points. First there was no pedophilia invo...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Chelsea, I forgot to add some important points.

First there was no pedophilia involved. I forgot the actual term but in almost all cases the abuse involved boys, most of whom were teenagers. But that is a mere technical point that does not lessen the horrors of the abuse. But the media and the lawyers prefer to ignore that technicality as pedophilia sounds worse especially when you want to rile people up against the Church and win those big cash awards, most of which goes to the lawyers rather than the victims.

A study, of the whole situation concluded, among its findings, that the root cause of the problem was the homosexuality of the guilty priests. The Bishops prefer to not address that publicly because they would then be accused of being homophobic.

The reason Catholic parents continue to send their children to Catholic schools and churches is the same reason parents everywhere continue to send their children to public schools, Protestant children activities, scouting, etc. where statistically they are far more likely to be abused than at any Catholic operation. And the same reason they still let those weird family members and live-in boyfriends have access to their kids who are the most likely of all categories to abuse the kids.

And the final reason, is that even the Church's enemies in this country, admit that because of the steps the Bishops have taken since this whole mess exploded in their faces are the most effective found in all similar institutions. So that a child is safer in Catholic Churches, schools and youth activities then any where else.

Does that mean it won't happen again? Nope! Although the Church is of God, it is in the world. In the world it is filled with fallen men and women. Being a Priest or Nun or other religious does not automatically make anyone a saint. So there will always be those who commit these types of horrible actions and even worse ones. That is human nature.

--hide--


I think "ephebophilia" is the word you were looking for. I've heard this is the correct term, I couldn't dredge it up last night, though.

I guess the reason why I'm questioning all this is that so many parents seem to be shifting the blame to the direct abusers, rather than accepting part of the blame themselves for facilitating the abuse.

I don't doubt that the bishops are doing their utmost to help make the "issue" go away, but I don't see how after this mess occurred that parents would continue to allow private non-confessional access to their children. I know it's the same underlying "reasoning" which parents use to justify sending their kids to public school, etc., where such things go on. I merely don't understand it.

11/19/2012 new

(Quote) Marirose-887295 said: If I were aware of accusations against a person, I would not let them within 100 feet of my ch...
(Quote) Marirose-887295 said:

If I were aware of accusations against a person, I would not let them within 100 feet of my children. However, most sexual abuse is not happening by priests, it usually happens by somebody close to the victim and trusted by the family. If it were so easy to spot an abuser, I am sure there would be a lot less victims as I can't imagine any parent that would knowingly put a child in harms way.


Hopefully, you will never have somebody close to you experience it.

--hide--


It doesn't matter that "most" sexual abuse is not perpetrated by priests, what matters is that parents do facilitate access of their children to priests, deacons, consecrated religious, and lay workers who are unorthodox and untrustworthy (and therefore unpredictable). It seems if these parents loved their children, they would not do that.

I already have had someone close to me experience this sort of abuse...several someones, in fact, and I do not see how to excuse parents from sharing in some of the guilt.

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