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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Nov 25th 2012 new

As Paul said, there is no official language in the US. And to provide some historical perspective, plenty parts of this country were inhabited by non-English speakers (including Spanish-speakers) long before English-speaking Europeans moved in. In every generation there is backlash against the biggest group of "others" who are supposedly threatening the American Way, and ironically, they later can turn into the ones protesting the latest group of "others." Even if first-generation immigrants never fully assimilate and become proficient in English, the odds that subsequent generations will not assimilate or be able to communicate in English is ridiculously small. On the other hand, the odds that those subsequent generations will lose touch with their family's cultural heritage and heritage language is much, much larger. Honestly, do not worry. hug


Meanwhile, my question is, what is wrong in and of itself with providing assistance to help people understand and communicate with others?


I often wonder how many people that protest language assistance have ever moved to another country where they knew nothing of the language and, as an adult who is also working full-time, tried to learn a new language. It's hard. It takes time and energy and a lot of effort. And it doesn't happen overnight. And in the meanwhile you will be very, very happy to have a little help figuring out what is going on.


Should people learn English in the US? Absolutely. It will help both them and others immensely. Should we begrudge assistance to people who are not there yet? Absolutely not.

Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: As far as Europe goes, nationalism based on language is quite new. Even now in European...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



As far as Europe goes, nationalism based on language is quite new. Even now in European countries such as Spain and France, the Basque language, Euskara and the Corsican language (also spoken in Italy), Corsu are still spoken widely. While they aren't majority languages, to my knowledge they are still taught in school in the regions where they're common.

After coming in from Ellis Island in 1917, my Lithuanian great-grandfather moved to "little Lithuania" in Chicago. There, it is common to hear the language, even now. There even used to be a Lithuanian language newspaper there, too.

I don't have a problem hearing people speak Spanish or Hindi or Urdu or Portuguese or any number of other languages. These things come and go. I understand speaking in English being a pre-requisite of business with the public at large, but could care less if people spoke their mother-tongue on the bus, sidewalk, shopping mall, etc. in a private capacity.

It's not language that divides us in the USA, it's religion and rationality. I, for one, do not ascribe to the post-protestant mainstream americanism...and that divides me from a lot of people whether I speak English or not.

--hide--


I am a little surprised to hear you say that nationalism based on language in Europe is quite new. Any country in Europe, or Africa or Asia
that I ever visited, they not only had their own language, but they had their own currency. If you think about the number of
languages spoken in Europe compared to the number of languages spoken in South America, you really will see the variation.


Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: I am a little surprised to hear you say that nationalism based on language in Europe i...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



I am a little surprised to hear you say that nationalism based on language in Europe is quite new. Any country in Europe, or Africa or Asia
that I ever visited, they not only had their own language, but they had their own currency. If you think about the number of
languages spoken in Europe compared to the number of languages spoken in South America, you really will see the variation.

--hide--


Just for an example of what I'm talking about, look at the history of Italy as a unified state. That land mass used to be comprised Piedmont, Venetia, Tuscany, Papal States, and Sicily...all with their own different dialects of what we generally refer to as the Italian language...before 1870. The notion presented as part of the reasoning behind the unification of the sovereign kingdoms on the Italian peninsula was to unify in one state all the peoples who spoke the same language. The state of Italy is new...even newer than the USA...

Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Lina-796057 said: And I feel "bad" when I object to this different standard, as though I will be perceived...
(Quote) Lina-796057 said:

And I feel "bad" when I object to this different standard, as though I will be perceived as anti-Mexican or as generally prejudiced, which I am not.

--hide--


I think I am at the point where I find Spanish spoken around me in such great quantities that it is getting irritating.
The other day in a department store, I heard a couple speaking Italian, and it was so melodious. I am really getting
tired of hearing Spanish.

Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Just for an example of what I'm talking about, look at the history of Italy as a un...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Just for an example of what I'm talking about, look at the history of Italy as a unified state. That land mass used to be comprised Piedmont, Venetia, Tuscany, Papal States, and Sicily...all with their own different dialects of what we generally refer to as the Italian language...before 1870. The notion presented as part of the reasoning behind the unification of the sovereign kingdoms on the Italian peninsula was to unify in one state all the peoples who spoke the same language. The state of Italy is new...even newer than the USA...

--hide--


It was still Italian though.

Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: I think I am at the point where I find Spanish spoken around me in such great quantiti...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



I think I am at the point where I find Spanish spoken around me in such great quantities that it is getting irritating.
The other day in a department store, I heard a couple speaking Italian, and it was so melodious. I am really getting
tired of hearing Spanish.

--hide--
OK, this is different from what I object to. Just sayin'.

Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Lina-796057 said: OK, this is different from what I object to. Just sayin'.
(Quote) Lina-796057 said:

OK, this is different from what I object to. Just sayin'.

--hide--


I know it is different from what you were saying.

Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Just for an example of what I'm talking about, look at the history of Italy as a un...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Just for an example of what I'm talking about, look at the history of Italy as a unified state. That land mass used to be comprised Piedmont, Venetia, Tuscany, Papal States, and Sicily...all with their own different dialects of what we generally refer to as the Italian language...before 1870. The notion presented as part of the reasoning behind the unification of the sovereign kingdoms on the Italian peninsula was to unify in one state all the peoples who spoke the same language. The state of Italy is new...even newer than the USA...

--hide--


I understand now what you were saying in the previous post. It is interesting how you are using Italy in this post because
the Holy Roman Empire was so big at one time.

Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: I think I am at the point where I find Spanish spoken around me in such great quantiti...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



I think I am at the point where I find Spanish spoken around me in such great quantities that it is getting irritating.
The other day in a department store, I heard a couple speaking Italian, and it was so melodious. I am really getting
tired of hearing Spanish.

--hide--

I'm not clear on why other people just speaking to each other in another language would be so irritating to you. Do you feel threatened? Frustrated at not being able to understand? What?


This kind of general negativity sounds very much to me like some experiences of culture shock, as strange as it seems. I can see in your profile that you've traveled overseas. Have you ever lived abroad anywhere long enough to experience that before?

Nov 25th 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-896845 said: I'm not clear on why other people just speaking to each other in another language wo...
(Quote) Laura-896845 said:

I'm not clear on why other people just speaking to each other in another language would be so irritating to you. Do you feel threatened? Frustrated at not being able to understand? What?


This kind of general negativity sounds very much to me like some experiences of culture shock, as strange as it seems. I can see in your profile that you've traveled overseas. Have you ever lived abroad anywhere long enough to experience that before?

--hide--


Culture shock is a good term. Because it is a culture shock to hear that much Spanish spoken that much of the time
in my own area. It is not general negativity. Spanish is not a soothing or soft spoken language. It is irritating.
At least the Spanish they speak around here.

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