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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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Nov 27th 2012 new

(Quote) Renai-414828 said: (Quote) Kathleen-5781 said: Prayers for your upcoming major surgery d...
(Quote) Renai-414828 said:
Quote:
Kathleen-5781 said:




Prayers for your upcoming major surgery dearest Renai ...


I hope you will recover quickly and be well. I think we all want to experience good things here on earth and in life ... A good marriage for us singles on here is what we are mostly looking for. And if you do die never experiencing sexual pleasure it won't matter in the next life. Heaven will be more glorious than anything this life has to offer. And the other place we know is eternal separation from God and there will be no love there.


Blessings to you dear Renai.. Yes we are human but we trust in God. Peace and prayers for you.

Kathleen


PS Something that just came to mind, my cousin that died of ovarian cancer. She had all of her female organs removed and I think her husband had to live without sex until she died. I am sure he was able to deal with that, because when we love someone, we make sacrifices and love is not only a sexual experience. That's just something to think about ... I hope you don't have cancer ... Please update us .. We are praying for you ...




Hello Kathleen, thank for your insight and yes, it is stomach cancer...I am not worried though,God has manifested so many miracles in my life, and especially in the past one year...I am confident He will finish what He has started...no shaking - Thanks.
--hide--


hug Praying rosary theheart Jesus we trust in You ... I pray your surgery and cancer will be cured. God loves us immensely and will see us through. God Bless you for being so brave.

Kathleen

Nov 28th 2012 new

(Quote) Renai-414828 said: Hello guys, thanks for ALL of your comments - sorry I've been AWOL on the thread....pressing matters...
(Quote) Renai-414828 said: Hello guys, thanks for ALL of your comments - sorry I've been AWOL on the thread....pressing matters like pepping for an upcoming major surgery in 4 days!!..Ok, so here is my take:

I agree with most of what has been expressed above, but I do think quite a few folks miss the point of the original post - which indicates that we are talking about folks who already believe and accept the church's teachings on pre-marital sex, so further elaborating on the Church's teaching was not the question I want addressed, but rather how do people who are celibate, want to wait until marriage to have sex would feel if say they are 60, 70 or 80 and never get the opportunity to get married, thus never have sex, and not that they have taken a vow of celibacy (like some Opus dei members) or thinking about entering a religious order...personally, I have read Theology of the Body,and it makes sense to me, so there is not question about my views on the matter, however, I think sex is spiritual but also temporal....and a human experience most would like to have, all things being equal (ie one is in a good loving marriage) thus inasmuch as we focus on the spiritual aspect of sex as Catholics, we cannot and should not deny the human longing and need for it...in a good marriage, it enhances the experience...there is a human craving to have this experience. Yes, heaven is beyond our collective imagination and we hope we make it there to that permanent state of euphoria which has been described as the most heightened feeling the human mind cannot even begin to comprehend, but right now, we are here now, on earth, having a human experience of which sex is one of them - so wouldn't you like to at least sex before you die? I know I would, and I would feel "bad": if I never did and I am 80 - just being frank here...and no, that would not make me engage in sex prior to marriage. But I am human too.
--hide--


Well, I will give you an honest answer. I am not claiming that I think the Church agrees. When discussing theologic questions, I usually clarify whether I am trying to say what I think the Church says or my own opinion. In this case, it is neither theological, nor are you asking what the Church says; you are apparently asking what we personally think.

I remember going through this thought process in my 20s. I decided that, yes, it would be a shame and a waste to be 80 and a virgin. God made us to have sex or he wouldn't have given us the organs and some of us the intense desire. I didn't want to be an old man and wondering what it was like. So, I decided to find out. I assure you, I do not regret that decision overall. In fact, I still think and feel that I would have regretted it if I had not experienced intimacy with a woman while I was a young man.

Nevertheless, doing so certainly complicated my life! After all the turmoil emanating from a few relationships based mostly on the physical and a child out of wedlock, I can certainly see why the Church teaches what it does for practical reasons and why it is not good for people to engage in sex in an uncommitted relationship. I have long since reformed my ways. What I believe now is that to find one, committed woman for life is the best way. My long standing celebacy has been a purificatrion and a clarification in hopes of something better. But only because I believe I will eventually find that better relartionship.

But, to be honest, given the choice between only the physical and nothing, I would certainly and definitely take the physical as a life experience not to be missed under any circumstances. Shallow sex is better than no sex at all. I do not believe in the cult of the virgin, and think that a sick and warped point of view. Not natural at all. Not healthy. Not human. Not enobling of itself (but the sacrifice could be enobling as a sacrifice). It is a cultural idiosyncrasy we acquired from the Semitic peoples.

But, to conclude my post, which will no doubt outrage many good and pious Cahtolics, what I believe now is not that sex is such a heinous sin (because I do not believe that at all), but that we should strive for something better than sex for merely physical pleasure's sake...we should strive for the union of two hearts, minds and souls in a committed pact of life long commitment. I hold out now, because I want something better. I believe that both the pleasure of this would be more intense, but also the pain would be more intense, as those two are related and interdependent. But, the Catholic form of bond has the potential to reach a peak way beyond the mere physical. Very very few, however, in my experience ever reach that. For most of us, it is just not going to happen. Yet, we can have hope.

But, to be clear about my answer, if I thought that a committed marriage was not going to be possible, I would definitely experience and enjoy the physical sex for sex's sake again before I died, and would certainly recommend it for a dying youth. Like Steve McQueen's character in that so Navy film, "The Last Detail," I would dearly wish a young fellow to be well laid before he died or entered the penitentiary. That is just my point of view however, and I know that the Magisterium would not agree. But, all those life long celebates and virgins are just wrong on this point if they think their point of view should control us all, I'm sorry to say. For some of us, life is to be lived. Of course, one must be willing to pay the price....and it is high. The celebate life is much simpler, as my priestly brother is wont to say. But some of us have paid dearly in the past, but willingly.

Nov 28th 2012 new

Funny how men worry about dying virgins.
And women worry about dying without ever finding "true" love and getting married.
And at the end both pointis sound completely dumb.

Just pointing out some of our differences.

Nov 28th 2012 new

(Quote) Laura-896845 said: Things do not always move so quickly to marriage, especially when you are younger. A...
(Quote) Laura-896845 said:


Things do not always move so quickly to marriage, especially when you are younger. At least it has been my experience that things tend to go a bit quicker once you're a bit older, but there can be a lot of different factors involved. There's no one-size-fits-all rule for relationship timing.

--hide--

Very true, Laura. When you are younger, especially if you are a professional who is advancing your education, or if you are bound to a certain job and unable to relocate, or have various family demands then the timing thing is certainly a case by case deal.

That said, there are many people, young people, who put off marriage for a very long time without a good reason, thereby tempting fate. It's your life. You cannot repeat it or change any mistakes you've made. I've heard a general rule is at least 6 months and no longer than 2 years.

Nov 28th 2012 new

(Quote) Kathleen-5781 said:Well, I don't think it is healthy to say Yes I am afraid to die a virgin. We are to give ourselv...
(Quote) Kathleen-5781 said:
Well, I don't think it is healthy to say Yes I am afraid to die a virgin. We are to give ourselves completely to God right now, and only in Holy Matrimony can we give ourselves to another person in a conjugal way.


None of us should be worried about dying a virgin. In fact we should strive for that. If someone I met said I am afraid of dying a virgin I would be very skeptical that they are just wanting to date or marry me for sexual pleasure. I want a marriage that is based on more than just sexual pleasure. I think all of us want that.

--hide--

Everyone has different fears, and even though I don't really share this fear, I can see how it can happen.

Nov 28th 2012 new

(Quote) Alma Rosa-704356 said: Funny how men worry about dying virgins.And women worry about dying without ever finding ...
(Quote) Alma Rosa-704356 said:

Funny how men worry about dying virgins.
And women worry about dying without ever finding "true" love and getting married.
And at the end both pointis sound completely dumb.

Just pointing out some of our differences.

--hide--


Well said, Alma.


Given the tone of this thread, it might not be appreciated to point out that each time a person receives the Eucharist, he/she can experience true marital love. Jesus gives to the recipient His body, heart, and Divinity, if we unconditionaly open our hearts to receive His gift.

Nov 28th 2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: Well, I will give you an honest answer. I am not claiming that I think the Church agrees...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:



Well, I will give you an honest answer. I am not claiming that I think the Church agrees. When discussing theologic questions, I usually clarify whether I am trying to say what I think the Church says or my own opinion. In this case, it is neither theological, nor are you asking what the Church says; you are apparently asking what we personally think.

I remember going through this thought process in my 20s. I decided that, yes, it would be a shame and a waste to be 80 and a virgin. God made us to have sex or he wouldn't have given us the organs and some of us the intense desire. I didn't want to be an old man and wondering what it was like. So, I decided to find out. I assure you, I do not regret that decision overall. In fact, I still think and feel that I would have regretted it if I had not experienced intimacy with a woman while I was a young man.

Nevertheless, doing so certainly complicated my life! After all the turmoil emanating from a few relationships based mostly on the physical and a child out of wedlock, I can certainly see why the Church teaches what it does for practical reasons and why it is not good for people to engage in sex in an uncommitted relationship. I have long since reformed my ways. What I believe now is that to find one, committed woman for life is the best way. My long standing celebacy has been a purificatrion and a clarification in hopes of something better. But only because I believe I will eventually find that better relartionship.

But, to be honest, given the choice between only the physical and nothing, I would certainly and definitely take the physical as a life experience not to be missed under any circumstances. Shallow sex is better than no sex at all. I do not believe in the cult of the virgin, and think that a sick and warped point of view. Not natural at all. Not healthy. Not human. Not enobling of itself (but the sacrifice could be enobling as a sacrifice). It is a cultural idiosyncrasy we acquired from the Semitic peoples.

But, to conclude my post, which will no doubt outrage many good and pious Cahtolics, what I believe now is not that sex is such a heinous sin (because I do not believe that at all), but that we should strive for something better than sex for merely physical pleasure's sake...we should strive for the union of two hearts, minds and souls in a committed pact of life long commitment. I hold out now, because I want something better. I believe that both the pleasure of this would be more intense, but also the pain would be more intense, as those two are related and interdependent. But, the Catholic form of bond has the potential to reach a peak way beyond the mere physical. Very very few, however, in my experience ever reach that. For most of us, it is just not going to happen. Yet, we can have hope.

But, to be clear about my answer, if I thought that a committed marriage was not going to be possible, I would definitely experience and enjoy the physical sex for sex's sake again before I died, and would certainly recommend it for a dying youth. Like Steve McQueen's character in that so Navy film, "The Last Detail," I would dearly wish a young fellow to be well laid before he died or entered the penitentiary. That is just my point of view however, and I know that the Magisterium would not agree. But, all those life long celebates and virgins are just wrong on this point if they think their point of view should control us all, I'm sorry to say. For some of us, life is to be lived. Of course, one must be willing to pay the price....and it is high. The celebate life is much simpler, as my priestly brother is wont to say. But some of us have paid dearly in the past, but willingly.

--hide--


In my opinion, Gerald, you are confused. Like the man with one foot in each camp, you are hedging your bets. I am not sure if you grasp the true meaning of faith. If you are a reading man, I would suggest you read The Theology of the Body. I would suggest reading the versiopn titled, "Man and Woman He Created Them: A Theology of the Body" by JPII as opposed to Christopher West's "Theology of the Body Explained". This might help clarify your views.

Nov 28th 2012 new

(Quote) Kathleen-5781 said: (Quote) Renai-414828 said: For those who have always been celibate ie never ever...
(Quote) Kathleen-5781 said:

Quote:
Renai-414828 said: For those who have always been celibate ie never ever had sex - regardless of how old you are, do you ever worry that perhaps you'll die a virgin? is this a big concern for you, and how do you deal with this. And for the re-born virgins either by virtue of having gone through a divorce and now celibate or have had premarital sex and now celibate in keeping with the teachings of the church, do you fear never having sex again?..and for all who fit into the category above, how has this negatively affected your relationships in the past. I know it has been a deal breaker for some of the guys I've dated...hence why I'm here on CM. please share your thoughts. Thanks.




Well, I don't think it is healthy to say Yes I am afraid to die a virgin. We are to give ourselves completely to God right now, and only in Holy Matrimony can we give ourselves to another person in a conjugal way.

None of us should be worried about dying a virgin. In fact we should strive for that. If someone I met said I am afraid of dying a virgin I would be very skeptical that they are just wanting to date or marry me for sexual pleasure. I want a marriage that is based on more than just sexual pleasure. I think all of us want that.

Don't let the world fool you .. He wants our souls to be saved and don't think you are missing out on something if you don't have sexual intercourse before you die. My soul is worth much more than any sexual pleasure I can have on this earth. I want eternal life forever NOT something transient here that will not last.

Peace and prayers for all of us here to be patient and look to things above Kathleen

--hide--

Great post Kathleen!!! clap clap clap Bow

This 'fear' people might express, that they will die without experiencing this physical love, is nothing more than a temptation prompted by the enemy. It often involves belittling, ridicule, etc., anything to break down those boundaries. How many times have people used these same tactics to cross that line? Surely, that's been ongoing since the time of Adam and Eve.

I currently don't know anyone, certainly not Catholic, who has this fear. I did know some people, guys and gals, back in college who professed to be fearful that they would die without experiencing sex. I always tried to turn them toward God, but I could see they lacked the Christian foundation to understand my intent and words.

I agree with Kathleen; no one should be fearful of dying a virgin. Quite the contrary, it would be a special blessing, a gift from God to return to Him in this manner. theheart For some reason, He allows certain lay people to remain unmarried and virginal throughout their lives.

In order to see the reality of this 'fear,' you have to see it for the evil temptation it is and then, pray, pray, pray. As with everything, prayer is the key to overcoming all types of temptation, especially of pre-marital sex, which as I have said before, is a particularly heinous sin whose effects pain the offender's soul greatly as well as those with whom they come into contact... and often for years to come.

Nov 28th 2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: (Quote) Renai-414828 said: Hello guys, thanks for ALL of your comments - sorry I...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Quote:
Renai-414828 said: Hello guys, thanks for ALL of your comments - sorry I've been AWOL on the thread....pressing matters like pepping for an upcoming major surgery in 4 days!!..Ok, so here is my take:

I agree with most of what has been expressed above, but I do think quite a few folks miss the point of the original post - which indicates that we are talking about folks who already believe and accept the church's teachings on pre-marital sex, so further elaborating on the Church's teaching was not the question I want addressed, but rather how do people who are celibate, want to wait until marriage to have sex would feel if say they are 60, 70 or 80 and never get the opportunity to get married, thus never have sex, and not that they have taken a vow of celibacy (like some Opus dei members) or thinking about entering a religious order...personally, I have read Theology of the Body,and it makes sense to me, so there is not question about my views on the matter, however, I think sex is spiritual but also temporal....and a human experience most would like to have, all things being equal (ie one is in a good loving marriage) thus inasmuch as we focus on the spiritual aspect of sex as Catholics, we cannot and should not deny the human longing and need for it...in a good marriage, it enhances the experience...there is a human craving to have this experience. Yes, heaven is beyond our collective imagination and we hope we make it there to that permanent state of euphoria which has been described as the most heightened feeling the human mind cannot even begin to comprehend, but right now, we are here now, on earth, having a human experience of which sex is one of them - so wouldn't you like to at least sex before you die? I know I would, and I would feel "bad": if I never did and I am 80 - just being frank here...and no, that would not make me engage in sex prior to marriage. But I am human too.



Well, I will give you an honest answer. I am not claiming that I think the Church agrees. When discussing theologic questions, I usually clarify whether I am trying to say what I think the Church says or my own opinion. In this case, it is neither theological, nor are you asking what the Church says; you are apparently asking what we personally think.

I remember going through this thought process in my 20s. I decided that, yes, it would be a shame and a waste to be 80 and a virgin. God made us to have sex or he wouldn't have given us the organs and some of us the intense desire. I didn't want to be an old man and wondering what it was like. So, I decided to find out. I assure you, I do not regret that decision overall. In fact, I still think and feel that I would have regretted it if I had not experienced intimacy with a woman while I was a young man.

Nevertheless, doing so certainly complicated my life! After all the turmoil emanating from a few relationships based mostly on the physical and a child out of wedlock, I can certainly see why the Church teaches what it does for practical reasons and why it is not good for people to engage in sex in an uncommitted relationship. I have long since reformed my ways. What I believe now is that to find one, committed woman for life is the best way. My long standing celebacy has been a purificatrion and a clarification in hopes of something better. But only because I believe I will eventually find that better relartionship.

But, to be honest, given the choice between only the physical and nothing, I would certainly and definitely take the physical as a life experience not to be missed under any circumstances. Shallow sex is better than no sex at all. I do not believe in the cult of the virgin, and think that a sick and warped point of view. Not natural at all. Not healthy. Not human. Not enobling of itself (but the sacrifice could be enobling as a sacrifice). It is a cultural idiosyncrasy we acquired from the Semitic peoples.

But, to conclude my post, which will no doubt outrage many good and pious Cahtolics, what I believe now is not that sex is such a heinous sin (because I do not believe that at all), but that we should strive for something better than sex for merely physical pleasure's sake...we should strive for the union of two hearts, minds and souls in a committed pact of life long commitment. I hold out now, because I want something better. I believe that both the pleasure of this would be more intense, but also the pain would be more intense, as those two are related and interdependent. But, the Catholic form of bond has the potential to reach a peak way beyond the mere physical. Very very few, however, in my experience ever reach that. For most of us, it is just not going to happen. Yet, we can have hope.

But, to be clear about my answer, if I thought that a committed marriage was not going to be possible, I would definitely experience and enjoy the physical sex for sex's sake again before I died, and would certainly recommend it for a dying youth. Like Steve McQueen's character in that so Navy film, "The Last Detail," I would dearly wish a young fellow to be well laid before he died or entered the penitentiary. That is just my point of view however, and I know that the Magisterium would not agree. But, all those life long celebates and virgins are just wrong on this point if they think their point of view should control us all, I'm sorry to say. For some of us, life is to be lived. Of course, one must be willing to pay the price....and it is high. The celebate life is much simpler, as my priestly brother is wont to say. But some of us have paid dearly in the past, but willingly.

--hide--

That's the thing Gerald; engaging in pre-marital sex is not living. It's a sin which does nothing more than enslave people and remove them from the grace of God. theheart

Nov 28th 2012 new

(Quote) John-857142 said: (Quote) Gerald-283546 said: Well, I will give you an honest answer....
(Quote) John-857142 said:

Quote:
Gerald-283546 said:



Well, I will give you an honest answer. I am not claiming that I think the Church agrees. When discussing theologic questions, I usually clarify whether I am trying to say what I think the Church says or my own opinion. In this case, it is neither theological, nor are you asking what the Church says; you are apparently asking what we personally think.

I remember going through this thought process in my 20s. I decided that, yes, it would be a shame and a waste to be 80 and a virgin. God made us to have sex or he wouldn't have given us the organs and some of us the intense desire. I didn't want to be an old man and wondering what it was like. So, I decided to find out. I assure you, I do not regret that decision overall. In fact, I still think and feel that I would have regretted it if I had not experienced intimacy with a woman while I was a young man.

Nevertheless, doing so certainly complicated my life! After all the turmoil emanating from a few relationships based mostly on the physical and a child out of wedlock, I can certainly see why the Church teaches what it does for practical reasons and why it is not good for people to engage in sex in an uncommitted relationship. I have long since reformed my ways. What I believe now is that to find one, committed woman for life is the best way. My long standing celebacy has been a purificatrion and a clarification in hopes of something better. But only because I believe I will eventually find that better relartionship.

But, to be honest, given the choice between only the physical and nothing, I would certainly and definitely take the physical as a life experience not to be missed under any circumstances. Shallow sex is better than no sex at all. I do not believe in the cult of the virgin, and think that a sick and warped point of view. Not natural at all. Not healthy. Not human. Not enobling of itself (but the sacrifice could be enobling as a sacrifice). It is a cultural idiosyncrasy we acquired from the Semitic peoples.

But, to conclude my post, which will no doubt outrage many good and pious Cahtolics, what I believe now is not that sex is such a heinous sin (because I do not believe that at all), but that we should strive for something better than sex for merely physical pleasure's sake...we should strive for the union of two hearts, minds and souls in a committed pact of life long commitment. I hold out now, because I want something better. I believe that both the pleasure of this would be more intense, but also the pain would be more intense, as those two are related and interdependent. But, the Catholic form of bond has the potential to reach a peak way beyond the mere physical. Very very few, however, in my experience ever reach that. For most of us, it is just not going to happen. Yet, we can have hope.

But, to be clear about my answer, if I thought that a committed marriage was not going to be possible, I would definitely experience and enjoy the physical sex for sex's sake again before I died, and would certainly recommend it for a dying youth. Like Steve McQueen's character in that so Navy film, "The Last Detail," I would dearly wish a young fellow to be well laid before he died or entered the penitentiary. That is just my point of view however, and I know that the Magisterium would not agree. But, all those life long celebates and virgins are just wrong on this point if they think their point of view should control us all, I'm sorry to say. For some of us, life is to be lived. Of course, one must be willing to pay the price....and it is high. The celebate life is much simpler, as my priestly brother is wont to say. But some of us have paid dearly in the past, but willingly.



In my opinion, Gerald, you are confused. Like the man with one foot in each camp, you are hedging your bets. I am not sure if you grasp the true meaning of faith. If you are a reading man, I would suggest you read The Theology of the Body. I would suggest reading the versiopn titled, "Man and Woman He Created Them: A Theology of the Body" by JPII as opposed to Christopher West's "Theology of the Body Explained". This might help clarify your views.

--hide--


Glad you brought up Theology of the Body John .. Here are 2 websites with more info. We are to strive for Holiness ... I was thinking what about dying without ever experiencing childbirth for a woman? to me it is not a fear It is just something I hope for but with my age, I am realizing it may not be.. I just try to be happy with what God gave me... Life is a precious gift... So much to be thankful for and sexuality is only a small part of life. I like the saying about Happiness is not having what you want but Wanting what you have ... Many of us should just be happy with what God has put in our life.. We are owed nothing in this world and for Jesus to die on the cross for my salvation ... That to me is the best gift.. Thank you Jesus theheart
Enjoy the following websites when you have a chance.. Great stuff!! Praying Kathleen
www.christopherwest.com
thetheologyofthebody.com

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