Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free
A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

11/28/2012 new

(Quote) Charles-512043 said: I think the argument is better summarized as "Mormons are henotheists, therefore they are...
(Quote) Charles-512043 said:

I think the argument is better summarized as "Mormons are henotheists, therefore they aren't Christian. Since they aren't Christian, they don't have a valid Baptism", which isn't circular at all.
--hide--

That is a much better argument.

11/29/2012 new

Now the interesting thing here is that many of the Mormans I have known are actually better Christians than many of the Catholics I have known. In fact, if one looks at the LDS Church members, one sees a rather high proportion who marry young, stay married, have kids, raise their kids right, don't smoke, drink or do drugs, abide by the law, work hard, go to church regularly, dress neatly, and are basically just nice guys and gals. OK, their theology is way off the Catholic mark, but, Jesus said that you can tell the tree by its fruit. The fruit of the LDS tree is sweet. Can we Catholics claim the same. Not anymore. It is an irony that we are all holier than thou about the form of baptism but they seem to lead the better lives.

11/29/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said: Now the interesting thing here is that many of the Mormans I have known are actually better Chri...
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:

Now the interesting thing here is that many of the Mormans I have known are actually better Christians than many of the Catholics I have known. In fact, if one looks at the LDS Church members, one sees a rather high proportion who marry young, stay married, have kids, raise their kids right, don't smoke, drink or do drugs, abide by the law, work hard, go to church regularly, dress neatly, and are basically just nice guys and gals. OK, their theology is way off the Catholic mark, but, Jesus said that you can tell the tree by its fruit. The fruit of the LDS tree is sweet. Can we Catholics claim the same. Not anymore. It is an irony that we are all holier than thou about the form of baptism but they seem to lead the better lives.

--hide--

You certainly can't knock Morman moral values. The ones I have known have been universally kind and friendly. Too bad their theology is way off in left field!

12/10/2012 new
Gerald, I totally agree with you. Thought teologically I find mormons' theories and vision of Christ very much comparable to that of guys who believe in UFOs, I could not help but to appreciate their sense of family, community, faith, and values. Most of the mormons I know are exemplary Christians (as in the way they live their lives) and I think thats well represented in their motto, which I love, "Choose the right". Lastly, regarding the original voting question, voting is a duty we have as members of a community and we should vote for the one whose values most represent mine. I know this is meaningless right now, after the ellections, but I guess since none of them were Catholics, the idea was to compare Romneys moral values and policies against Obama's and vote for the one who resembled the better the values of a Catholic
12/24/2012 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: You certainly can't knock Morman moral values. The ones I have known have been univer...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

You certainly can't knock Morman moral values. The ones I have known have been universally kind and friendly. Too bad their theology is way off in left field!

--hide--

When one encounters Mormans in large metropolitan areas in the West, they do tend to look a lot like our Fundamental brethren in the Midwest. However, a dear friend's experience in a small town in Arizona where Mormons are the majority, was not kind or friendly. While they clearly take care of their own, they do not seem to have the commitment to social outreach, i.e. helping folks who are not of their faith. Can you speak to that?

12/24/2012 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: Not to split hairs, but Mormons do have baptisim. One could argue that it's n...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Not to split hairs, but Mormons do have baptisim. One could argue that it's not a Christian one, but the unqualified assertion that they aren't baptised is incorrect.

--hide--

Given the context, it is (or should be) clear the reference is to a Christian (i.e., Trinitarian) baptism, which is the only form of baptism the Catholic Church recognizes.

12/24/2012 new

(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:
(Quote) Gerald-283546 said:


--hide--

> to be validly baptized does require use of the Trinitarian formula at the end of Matthew (valid form), along with use of some water (valid matter). Interestingly, a non-Catholic can validly baptize someone if they use the correct form and matter.

A valid sacrament requires valid form, matter, and intention. The intention can be rather general, such as "to do as the Catholic Church does", but it must be there.

> I would define a heretic as someone who claims to represent the Christian Faith but does so with false doctrine.

The formal definition of heresy requies that the heretic be validly baptized as a Christian and must profess to still being a Christian.

12/24/2012 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: ...and if you take that argument to a Mormon they will simply turn it 180 degrees on you....
(Quote) John-336509 said:

...and if you take that argument to a Mormon they will simply turn it 180 degrees on you.

My point is not that I think Mormons have a valid Catholic baptism. My point is that as an argument to anybody but somebody who already agrees with you, your logic is not good. To a neutral observer you are dangerously close to making a circular argument; Mormons aren't Christian because they don't have a valid Baptism. Their baptisms aren't valid because they aren't Christian.

I realize that is not exactly what you have said, but your argument is utterly dependant on everyone agreeing what constitutes a valid baptism AND that baptism is necessary to being Christian. Regardless of the first point, it's worth pointing out that are Protestants who will disagree with that later point. I know Protestants who think baptism is unnecessary, but I can't say that I know any who would agree that the Mormons have a correct view of the Holy Trinity or the validity of the Book of Mormon, etc.

Arguing about who's baptism is right detracts from the rather gaping theological differences.

--hide--

Although the person who posed the initial question wasn't specific in defining 'heretic', since this is a Catholic web site, it makes sense to assume he intended the question from a Catholic perspective until demonstrated otherwise. The Catholic Church has a rather specific definition of 'heresy'. In this context, whether a Mormon or even a Protestant would agree seems irrelevant.

12/27/2012 new

(Quote) Conley-921282 said: Since Mormons believe in divine progression (God was once a man and all good men can become gods...
(Quote) Conley-921282 said:

Since Mormons believe in divine progression (God was once a man and all good men can become gods.) Doesn't that make Mormonism heretical and as such wouldn't voting for Romney be a mortal sin?

--hide--


For crying out loud! His religion is his personal business. There are m,any shared values between catholicism and mormonism. We're not electing him as pope but as president.

01/03/2013 new

(Quote) Lisa-572677 said: When one encounters Mormans in large metropolitan areas in the West, they do tend to look...
(Quote) Lisa-572677 said:

When one encounters Mormans in large metropolitan areas in the West, they do tend to look a lot like our Fundamental brethren in the Midwest. However, a dear friend's experience in a small town in Arizona where Mormons are the majority, was not kind or friendly. While they clearly take care of their own, they do not seem to have the commitment to social outreach, i.e. helping folks who are not of their faith. Can you speak to that?

--hide--

I can't really speak to that. I've never lived in an area where they were a majority. They are more numerous out here in Seattle than they were on my section of US 231 back when I was a bit north of you, but they still aren't the majority.

Posts 11 - 20 of 23