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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
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Dec 6th 2012 new
(Quote) Ron-565573 said: I would never go back to that church. There are enough other things to argue about that we shouldn't have to ...
(Quote) Ron-565573 said:

I would never go back to that church. There are enough other things to argue about that we shouldn't have to worry about such trivial things as the form of taking communion and etc.

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Nope. Won't go into the twilight zone again where I am indirectly told that I'm not invited to receive communion(no offense to anyone here). However I won't let that experience stop me from going to other churches where traditional Masses are celebrated.
Dec 6th 2012 new

(Quote) Josephine-586127 said: I would like to know more also. I am unfamiliar with these terms EF and OF. Forgive my ignor...
(Quote) Josephine-586127 said:

I would like to know more also. I am unfamiliar with these terms EF and OF. Forgive my ignorance. All I know is that Latin Mass people I know INSIST that the Latin mass is the only "correct" mass and that the regular mass is all wrong.

Last summer I stopped by a church I had never been to before for mass. I think it turned out to be Novus Ordo but I am still not sure. The mass was in English and the priest on the altar was separated from the people. I was the only woman wearing jeans and not wearing a veil. Boy did I feel like out of place. To make matters worse, the priest made an announcement at the beginning of mass. Something to the effect that if anyone was not a traditional mass attendee, that they should not recieve communion (something like that- i was a little stunned by the announcement and don't remember exactly what he said). I felt that announcement was specifically for me and that everyone was focused at me. I sat through the mass because I was too embarrassed to get up and leave.

After the mass, I should have known, "the women" were waiting for me outside. They of course were very nice to me, but proceeded to tell me that everything about the regular mass was wrong and we were not attending the true mass- the correct mass. I kind of felt ganged up on and was just stuck there without an escape. I felt like I was in a different world. I listened to them, politely thanked them and said I would think about what they said and got out of that parking lot quickly. I had no idea that Catholics could be the same and yet so different.

I recently was communicating with Latin Mass man here on CM. He said from the beginning that he would respect my preferences (in case things worked out for us), but I don't think he meant it. It felt every communication centered around him convincing me that the Latin mass was the only valid mass. I thought this would be a problem for us because I felt he wasn't going to compromise even though he said he would, and that perhaps he wasn't going to let up on the pressure until I gave in. Things didn't work out for other reasons, but even in a perfect situation, there would have been problems over this.

Well, that's my limited experience with the traditional mass participants.
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Sadly, this is a sterling example of the obnoxious and mean-spirited behavior one encounters frommany trads.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You are like whitewashed tombs, which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men's bones and every kind of filth." Even so, on the outside you appear righteous, but inside you are filled with hypocrisy and evildoing.


- Mt 23:27-28


Not the words of canon law or some official rule or proclamation but THE WORDS OF OUR LORD himself. Think on this. This attitude of "I am right and everyone else is wrong" is a very dangerous place to be spiritually. You see what Our Lord thinks of it.

Dec 7th 2012 new

I really don't think that the average TLM attendee thinks that he/she is some form of superior human being. Many that I know were ex Eucharistic Ministers or played groovy guitar tunes during Mass at one time in the past. The one thing they share is as one put it was "the penny dropped" . I am attending Mass and Benediction for the First Friday shortly. The first time I attended I was just about moved to tears due to the reverence and acknowledgement of the Real Presence. During my former NO life a priest would delegate the role to a "Deacon" (a married guy) because he could not be bothered to hang around because he was playing golf or the like. My NO experiences include:

1) Being refused Holy Communion and being told that I am disobedient for not accepting Our Lord in my Hand.

2) At a Funeral Mass the priest saying before the Consecration "kneel now if you want to?"

3) Being marginalised for refusing to attend a Retreat with an image of a woman on a cross.

4) Being told that Martin Luther was a good guy.

5) Being at a Mass where non Catholics who had no idea what the Eucharist was being invited to partake to make it more "inclusive".

The preaching at the TLM is solid and orthodox and that is why I attend.

Dec 7th 2012 new

(Quote) David-364112 said:A lot of Trad men have the developmental level of early teens. This is why they gravitate to bossy Trad w...
(Quote) David-364112 said:A lot of Trad men have the developmental level of early teens. This is why they gravitate to bossy Trad women. They never learned how to relate to a wife, so they seek out a mother to replace the one they've outgrown. Those are the bold ones. The meeker ones live with their mothers forever.

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P.S I live with my mother because I don't want to put her in a Nursing Home. Yes, I have been called crazy for that as well.

Dec 7th 2012 new

(Quote) Gabor-19025 said: I really don't think that the average TLM attendee thinks that he/she is some form of superior...
(Quote) Gabor-19025 said:

I really don't think that the average TLM attendee thinks that he/she is some form of superior human being. Many that I know were ex Eucharistic Ministers or played groovy guitar tunes during Mass at one time in the past. The one thing they share is as one put it was "the penny dropped" . I am attending Mass and Benediction for the First Friday shortly. The first time I attended I was just about moved to tears due to the reverence and acknowledgement of the Real Presence. During my former NO life a priest would delegate the role to a "Deacon" (a married guy) because he could not be bothered to hang around because he was playing golf or the like. My NO experiences include:

1) Being refused Holy Communion and being told that I am disobedient for not accepting Our Lord in my Hand.

2) At a Funeral Mass the priest saying before the Consecration "kneel now if you want to?"

3) Being marginalised for refusing to attend a Retreat with an image of a woman on a cross.

4) Being told that Martin Luther was a good guy.

5) Being at a Mass where non Catholics who had no idea what the Eucharist was being invited to partake to make it more "inclusive".

The preaching at the TLM is solid and orthodox and that is why I attend.

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The Church in the English Commonwealth is far more prone to such liberal nonsense. I call it the "Catholic Uncle Tom Syndrome" of trying to be too obliging to the culture rather than counter to it. It exists here but less so every year. In Canada, NZ (Heaven help me), and even OZ it's reached horrendous levels. The Catholics there want to "fit in" and downplay the longstanding anti-Catholicism of those wooden-headed Anglo-Saxons. They bow to silly cultural/political pressure. Canada revised its lectionary to make it PC and to avoid grief fromtheir awful Human Rights Commissions. The result was anathema.


Much as the pharisees at the TLM bug me, the people with the leftie political/cultural agenda bug me more.

Dec 7th 2012 new

Why is it that everytime someone points out the consistent and pervasive bad attitudes and behavior of the Trads, that they refuse toaddress it and instead try to shift the focus to the (equally bad for different reasons) attitudes and behavior of the Church liberals? Is it because they know the criticism of Trads cannot be refuted because it's true?

Dec 7th 2012 new
Not at all David. Within the trad movement we have all the sins and sinners as does any movement and probably a few more. This includes a odd form of gnostism where some trads think they have the hidden knowledge no one else has. What you will find is many trads are raw from abuse they themselves took among the standard NO church from the 80-90's. I could list the things that happened to me personally but why. The point is many trads are thin skinned about their own behavior because of past abuse or percieved abuse. I have been part of this movement since the late 80's and its been a wild ride to where we are now. Trads need to just as anyone else needs to work on Holiness first. We we are all holy, the rites will reflect that even more. God. Bless.
Dec 7th 2012 new

Comparing some generalization about a mythical Traditionalist to gnosticism is unfortunate to say the least. If you'd take a look at the Theosophical Socitey, Blavatsky annd all the rest, and it's modern offshoots including the Church Universal and Triunphant movement you wouldn't even consider this. Your perception that they may sense they have special knowledge may leave out the fact that theymay feel utterly astonished that other Catholics can't even carry on a conversation about the issues without resorting to recrimination. Look at the differences even in Paul VI's rite of priestly ordination, and what Popes through even recent history have said about it. Maybe it's providential that Leo XIII wrote his bull about the failure of the Anglican ordinations to carry on the succession of the capacity to offer the propitiatory sacrifice that the Mass is meant to, because their ordinations do not specifically empower their clergy to do it. I've lived through the Berkeley 60s, and it's mindblowing, not gnostic.

Dec 7th 2012 new

Josephine, why don't you talk to the priest? Maybe you're on a different page and don't know it. I've checked out the differences even between the CMRI, SSPV, SSPX as well as the indult masses and NO. This saving our soul is serious business, and you may not be aware of their understandings, and shouldn't assume you've got enough info to judge. Cardinal Newman didn't convert to Catholicism because of politics or emotion but because of the study, I know I can't state this clearly enough, of all that made up history of the Church. So, since it might take such study and require sacrefice of all kinds, arriving at the decision to attend the TLM will probably over time become deeper than an appreciaciton of it's awesomeness, it's meaning, even that it is the true ancient propitiatory sacrefice. So if it's more than preference, concession wouldn't make much sense. But God gave us reason to understand these things, if we can dig our way out of out darkness with His help.

Dec 7th 2012 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: Why is it that everytime someone points out the consistent and pervasive bad attitudes and behavi...
(Quote) David-364112 said:

Why is it that everytime someone points out the consistent and pervasive bad attitudes and behavior of the Trads, that they refuse toaddress it and instead try to shift the focus to the (equally bad for different reasons) attitudes and behavior of the Church liberals? Is it because they know the criticism of Trads cannot be refuted because it's true?

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David, I can't speak for all Trads, but I do feel I represent many (especially as I have seen in my own parish) and these people do not fit the stereotype and criticisms presented. As I have said in a previous comment, some Trads do seem to act like Pharisees, and this requires an increase in the virtues of charity and humility. I deal with some of these people in the parish I regularly attend and have attended for 7 years, and I will admit I didn't find them welcoming when I first came to the TLM. Even so, I saw what was truly lovely about the TLM and have learned much about my faith from all in the parish, including from those I find a little difficult to bear sometimes. Within the church, we are all sinners in need of redemption and we need to bear with one another as brothers and sisters in Christ.


I find many who attend the OF/NO just as difficult at times. Some are so anti-TLM, anti-Trad, that they "throw out the baby with the bath water". Just mentioning that I often attend the TLM has caused others of the OF/NO to judge me and box me into a preconceived category they hold without actually letting me speak for myself. There is one parish in my city that is very "Charismatic" (very Protestant in reality, they call themselves "St. ... Catholic Community" not "...Catholic Church"). I was there to be a sponsor for a teen receiving their Confirmation. In a conversation with the new, young priest, I mentioned that I attended the TLM. He practically walked away from me mid-sentence with a look of disgust on his face. I had not said anything critical of how they worship at that parish - I figured I would take the advice of St. Ambrose to St. Monica when she first arrived in Milan - and yet there was an instant barrier that was almost impossible to overcome.


To repeat (as it is in previous posts above): Both the TLM and the OF/NO are valid masses. There are some elements in the NO liturgy which are problematic as they have gone too far from traditional church teaching and there are efforts from the Vatican to remedy this. The TLM (though it's parishioners are not perfect themselves) has preserved much of what is reverant and traditional and sets a good standard to follow. I have met many who have started attended the TLM in the past 7 years and it often leads to those individuals learning more about the faith and traditional church teachings. The fruits are evident. I have attended the NO for many years prior and, in my case, have learned little of the true faith in that time. It seems that many things were taken for granted and there was an "it's all good" attitude. I do agree that we ALL need to act in charity and humility more often and this is the most important thing. In wanting to follow Jesus and wanting to truly please him, I tend to look to the traditonal teachings as these were them that were set originally by Him or those very close to Him. He knows what is best for the salvation of my soul and the souls of others, and He would not lead us astray. Unfortunately there are others in the church, though perhaps not always deliberately, who seem to be doing just that.

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