Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free
A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

Saint Athanasius is counted as one of the four Great Doctors of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Athanasius

Dec 1st 2012 new

(Quote) Carl-98335 said: I still don't understand the comment from one member of my former parish that Jesus is present ...
(Quote) Carl-98335 said:

I still don't understand the comment from one member of my former parish that Jesus is present in both versions, but more present in the Latin. How can that be?

--hide--

Because the rubrics were tighter for the EF than the OF, which gives way too much leeway to the priest in how to say it. That, and the OF was first released in a time of growing heresy where the adherance to liturgical norms was slipping due to modernism.

Dec 1st 2012 new

[quote]Rose-921185 said:

In my opinion, it may be harder for a person who prefers the EF /TLM to change to the OF /NO as there are elements that would be very distracting in worshipping faithfully.

There are no EF/TLM in my area, therefore, I have never attended a TLM. I do not understand Latin, and if the homely is in Latin I would not receive the message that the priest is communicating, thereby missing the opportunity to reap the lessons from it. I am wondering what the elements are that are very distracting in worshipping faithfully in the OF/NO since I have no comparison with not having attended a TLM.

Dec 1st 2012 new
The OF is similar to the Book of Common Prayer in certain respects in that a priest can celebrate it in a manner approaching everywhere from the EF to the style of a Protestant communion service.

In Anglicanism, you have your Anglo-Catholics who use the BCP yet use copious amounts of incense, fine vestments and do it in a very Catholic manner, yet you have your Low Churchmen who use the BCP in a manner not unlike what is seen among Evangelicals.
Dec 1st 2012 new

(Quote) Donna-848472 said: There are no EF/TLM in my area, therefore, I have never attended a TLM. I do not understand Latin...
(Quote) Donna-848472 said:

There are no EF/TLM in my area, therefore, I have never attended a TLM. I do not understand Latin, and if the homely is in Latin I would not receive the message that the priest is communicating, thereby missing the opportunity to reap the lessons from it. I am wondering what the elements are that are very distracting in worshipping faithfully in the OF/NO since I have no comparison with not having attended a TLM.

--hide--

Hi Donna:

I hope my comments sound respectful b/c I do intend them to be. I will be attending a OF/NO mass tonight. I love the priest as he is a very kind and loving pastor. There are things in the liturgy which bother me though as I have since learned more about the topic. Even with the new Romal Missal changes, some priests still use their own words for the concecration and the hymns which are not consistent with traditional teachings. Some of the music is too "catchy pop" and the lyrics are not always in line with traditional teachings. Communion is often recieved in the hand instead of on the tongue (there is much written about why this is not the preferred form), and the congregation stands until all have recieved Communion instead of parishioners kneeling after reception. Sometimes I also find the homilies to be a big joking session and not related to the scriptural teachings presented that day. Our TLM priest can make a joke as well but the focus is still on the scripture and tradtional teachings of the church. He said that his job is to get us to heaven, not necessarily to be popular and have people like him (but people do like him). At the TLM, most people have Latin-English missals that help you follow along. The readings are first sung in Latin, then recited in English as well. The homily is in English. Sometimes the OF/NO seems too liberal and liturgically sloppy, but this by no means is the norm in most cases.


Cardinal Arinze, Prefect Emeritus of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments from 2002 to 2008 (not necessarly TLM), has written and spoken much about these things. Here is a start to finding some more information.


www.youtube.com


www.youtube.com


www.youtube.com


I noticed you are from Edmonton. If you are interested at some time, there is the TLM at Our Lady of Good Help (9809 - 76 Ave). I started going to the TLM about 7 years ago and have learned to really love the Mass. It did take some getting used to, and I found Latin easy to pick up (as I learned Spanish, French and Italian first). I am not a perfect Catholic, and sometimes admittedly I don't follow along with every word at the TLM (I sometimes just listen to the hymns that are sung throughout the Mass). I also appreciate the moments of silence in the TLM, and I have not seen much of this in the OF/NO. The High Mass (Sundays and Holy days of obligation) is 1 and a half hours long, the OF/NO usually finishes in less than an hour.


Like I said in my previious comment, I have learned things about Catholic traditional teachings and b/c of this I prefer the TLM. That does not mean that I am "holier" than those that attend the OF/NO, and there are many there that the Lord may find more pleasing. It's just that I do want to love our Lord, and by doing so I want to please him by following the tradtional teachings he left us with in the church.

Dec 1st 2012 new

[quote]Rose-921185 sai
Cardinal Arinze, Prefect Emeritus of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments from 2002 to 2008(not necessarly TLM), has written and spoken much about these things. Here is a start to finding some more information.
www.youtube.com
I noticed you are from Edmonton.


Thank you Rose for explaining and for the additional information. I am actually from a very small town, 6 hours from Edmonton (one can only give the closest city when filling out info. on this site). On rare occasion I have gone to Edmonton, and the next time I go I can certainly attend the church you mentioned just to see the difference.

The archbishop has been welcoming priests from India and I must say they are very traditional and I do appreciate their very meaningful homilies. They are particular in following as closely as possible to the Catholic traditions, but are open to the changes that do occur and are accepted by the church. The priest we have now is very much interested in each parishioners soul and well being. Our parish is very fortunate to have him...he lives the Gospel...is very humble...and encourages us all to have a very intimate relationship with Jesus. Thanks again.

Dec 1st 2012 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: The OF, aka the Novus Ordo, can be said in the vernacular, but its "native tongue&...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

The OF, aka the Novus Ordo, can be said in the vernacular, but its "native tongue" is Latin. That's how the original, and most up to date text is written in, and that's where the antiphons said for each particular mass, known as the "propers", are in that language with their appropriate chant melodies. These are in a book known as the gradual, or "Graduale Romanae."

The OF, if performed according with full adherance to the rubrics of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM), can be performed ad orientem, with the priest leading the people as in the EF. It's somewhat different, and if you've sung in a schola for the EF you quickly notice the differences between the EF and OF forms for high missa cantata, but both are very spirtually enlightening.

--hide--

You are of course correct that Latin is the "native Tongue" of the Mass (and pretty much all other official documents coming from the Vatican). I was emphasizing the word 'can' to make it clear that the OF was not limited to the vernacular, not to imply that there was anything odd about it being in Latin. Sorry if I was being unclear/sloppy.

Dec 1st 2012 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: (Quote) Carl-98335 said: I still don't understand the comment from on...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Quote:
Carl-98335 said:

I still don't understand the comment from one member of my former parish that Jesus is present in both versions, but more present in the Latin. How can that be?


Because the rubrics were tighter for the EF than the OF, which gives way too much leeway to the priest in how to say it. That, and the OF was first released in a time of growing heresy where the adherance to liturgical norms was slipping due to modernism.

--hide--

If you are explaining why some people come to the conclusion that Jesus is "more present in the Latin," then I agree that those are contributing factors. I hope you're not claming they are right.

Dec 1st 2012 new

(Quote) Donna-848472 said: (Quote) Rose-921185 said: In my opinion, it may be harder for a person who...
(Quote) Donna-848472 said:

[quote]Rose-921185 said:

In my opinion, it may be harder for a person who prefers the EF /TLM to change to the OF /NO as there are elements that would be very distracting in worshipping faithfully.

There are no EF/TLM in my area, therefore, I have never attended a TLM. I do not understand Latin, and if the homely is in Latin I would not receive the message that the priest is communicating, thereby missing the opportunity to reap the lessons from it. I am wondering what the elements are that are very distracting in worshipping faithfully in the OF/NO since I have no comparison with not having attended a TLM.

--hide--

I don't think it's inherently harder going in one direction or the other. I think different people are attracted to different versions with different degrees of strength. I think anybody who is very strongly attracted to one (or very much dislikes the other) is always going to have difficulty dealing with the form the do not prefer. Those who do not like the OF will complain of distractions. Those who do not like the EF will complain of not understanding what is going on.

Dec 1st 2012 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: (Quote) Carl-98335 said: I still don't understand the comment from one...
(Quote) David-364112 said:

Quote:
Carl-98335 said:

I still don't understand the comment from one member of my former parish that Jesus is present in both versions, but more present in the Latin. How can that be?



Be thankful you can't understand it - because it's NONSENSE.

--hide--


Let me clarify since some of you got your kinicker =s and mantillas in a knot over the word nonsense.


The statement that Carl's nutty friend made is utter NONSENSE.


The TLM, on the other hand, is a beautiful and perfectly valid Mass.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

All this well-spirited debate over various forms of the Mass and how one is more valid than the other, and the arguments for all. When did Jesus himself state that all of this is necessary?

Posts 51 - 60 of 180