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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

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Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Carl-98335 said: All this well-spirited debate over various forms of the Mass and how one is more valid than the oth...
(Quote) Carl-98335 said:

All this well-spirited debate over various forms of the Mass and how one is more valid than the other, and the arguments for all. When did Jesus himself state that all of this is necessary?

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Carl, so far people have talked about their personal reactions or preferences to the two major forms of the Mass in the Latin rite. Some, like yourself have mentioned how some people have talked to them about one or the other being more valid. But no one here has said that they believe one was more valid than the other.

In fact, the consensus here is that anyone making a claim that one is more valid or better than the other is off base and should be ignored.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: I doubt it. The Trad is probably incapable of the teeniest tiniest compromise. The n...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


I doubt it. The Trad is probably incapable of the teeniest tiniest compromise. The non-Trad would be brow-beaten either into submission or into a nuthouse.

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I don't understand why such a stereotype. How can such a blanket statement be true? Within a traditional Mass on any given Sunday, one will find so many different thoughts and reasons for being there.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Carl, so far people have talked about their personal reactions or preferences to the two ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Carl, so far people have talked about their personal reactions or preferences to the two major forms of the Mass in the Latin rite. Some, like yourself have mentioned how some people have talked to them about one or the other being more valid. But no one here has said that they believe one was more valid than the other.

In fact, the consensus here is that anyone making a claim that one is more valid or better than the other is off base and should be ignored.

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I agree. If we are Catholic then we believe this is Christ's Church. Christ's Church states both are valid and so they are valid.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Meg-920823 said: I agree. If we are Catholic then we believe this is Christ's Church. Christ's ...
(Quote) Meg-920823 said:


I agree. If we are Catholic then we believe this is Christ's Church. Christ's Church states both are valid and so they are valid.

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Our Faith is not a cafeteria plan from which we can pick and choose.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Carl-98335 said: I still don't understand the comment from one member of my former parish that Jesus is present ...
(Quote) Carl-98335 said:

I still don't understand the comment from one member of my former parish that Jesus is present in both versions, but more present in the Latin. How can that be?

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Yes, how can Jesus be 'more present'? His presence in the Eucharist is Divine, it's Him, and He is there if the Change was made during the Consecration.


As a Catholic who attends both rites, I am ashamed for many of the things said to you. Those of us who enjoy the Tridentine Mass do not feel this way or have this attitude. Again, I am sorry. Perhaps the Devil is at work to divide in the hope of conquering?? He will try anything.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

That sounds great. I hope they help you grow in faith. Some of my favorite local priests (I have many favorites) are from India as well.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Meg-920823 said: I don't understand why such a stereotype. How can such a blanket statement be true...
(Quote) Meg-920823 said:


I don't understand why such a stereotype. How can such a blanket statement be true? Within a traditional Mass on any given Sunday, one will find so many different thoughts and reasons for being there.

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I paint what I see. This has been my experience over the past 35+ years. There are plenty of exceptions, but in the most part this observation is confirmed time and time again.


I'm not the only one saying this. Many others on CM and elsewhere have similar observations. I recently heard a taped sermon by an FSSP priest setting forth many of these characteristics in a sermon given at a TLM to a church full of (bristling no doubt) Trads.


Why is that? Were we all doped in one of those clown and balloon Masses the Trads are always squawking about? Or is there, perhaps, some solid and consistent basis for this "stereotype"?


scratchchin

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) Carl-98335 said: All this well-spirited debate over various forms of the Mass and how one is more valid than the oth...
(Quote) Carl-98335 said:

All this well-spirited debate over various forms of the Mass and how one is more valid than the other, and the arguments for all. When did Jesus himself state that all of this is necessary?

--hide--


Jesus looks into our hearts. He recognizes His followers, not by the rite they attend (both are valid), not by the way they dress or the extent to which they visibly participate in the ceremony.


Jesus looks to our interior disposition. Do we love Him, focus on the altar during the consecration, come close to a swoon when the words of institution are pronounced? Do we receive Communion not merely with external reverence (which is crucially important) but also with love, awe, great anticipation, and also a litttle trepidation? What are our thoughts during Mass? What is our focus - the perceived faults of others around us including His priest, or do we attempt too see the Mass and the people in attendance as God sees them?



Dec 2nd 2012 new

I just want to go to Mass, see Jesus, and worship in peace. That's it.

Dec 2nd 2012 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: Let me clarify since some of you got your kinicker =s and mantillas in a knot over t...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


Let me clarify since some of you got your kinicker =s and mantillas in a knot over the word nonsense.


The statement that Carl's nutty friend made is utter NONSENSE.


The TLM, on the other hand, is a beautiful and perfectly valid Mass.

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Let me further clarify: The TLM is not merely beautiful and valid: it the highest and best rite of Catholic worship. It is perfect prayer.


But it is does not follow that the Blessed Sacrament confected at a Novis Ordo Mass is somehow inferior to the same Sacrament in a TLM? Such a statement is barking madness, hateful, blasphemous, and IMO possibly a sin against the Holy Spirit.



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