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This room is for general discussion that doesn't specifically fit into one of the other CatholicMatch rooms. Topics should not be overly serious as this is to be more of a "cafe setting."

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Nov 28th 2012 new

pay it forward.


help someone else.

Dec 3rd 2012 new

(Quote) Dave-146273 said: good luck Tom,,
(Quote) Dave-146273 said:

good luck Tom,,

--hide--
Dave, they sent me some money back, but not all. I was already going to drop the matter and will do so in the next days. Thanks for your support.

Dec 3rd 2012 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: pay it forward. help someone else.
(Quote) David-364112 said:

pay it forward.


help someone else.

--hide--
/David, they sent me some money back, but not all. I was already going to drop the matter and will do so in the next days. I'll gladly take the $874. Thanks for your support and GOD BLESS YOU! I pay it back every day and I think the good Lord knows this. You are a good man.

Tom

Dec 4th 2012 new

(Quote) Tom-919560 said: /David, they sent me some money back, but not all. I was already going to drop the matter and will ...
(Quote) Tom-919560 said:

/David, they sent me some money back, but not all. I was already going to drop the matter and will do so in the next days. I'll gladly take the $874. Thanks for your support and GOD BLESS YOU! I pay it back every day and I think the good Lord knows this. You are a good man.

Tom

--hide--


thanks but you exaggerate. i'm no better or worse than anyone else. just passing on a bit of wisdom i picked up along the way. fighting a losing battle for the sake of principle is no good. it always comes to grief and stokes resentments. resentments are the biggest interior enemyand poison there is.


put this behind you. keep trying to live a good life.

Dec 4th 2012 new

(Quote) Tom-919560 said: Dave, they sent me some money back, but not all. I was already going to drop the matter and will do...
(Quote) Tom-919560 said:

Dave, they sent me some money back, but not all. I was already going to drop the matter and will do so in the next days. Thanks for your support.

--hide--

Tom, good to hear that.. .any money you can get back from local govt. is a good thing!! Congrats.. glad it worked out somewhat.

Dec 4th 2012 new

(Quote) David-364112 said: thanks but you exaggerate. i'm no better or worse than anyone else. just passing...
(Quote) David-364112 said:


thanks but you exaggerate. i'm no better or worse than anyone else. just passing on a bit of wisdom i picked up along the way. fighting a losing battle for the sake of principle is no good. it always comes to grief and stokes resentments. resentments are the biggest interior enemyand poison there is.


put this behind you. keep trying to live a good life.

--hide--
No, sir--no exaggeration! You helped me decide to drop the case. The agency made my employer pay some of it back without even going to court. I heard that they did not want to fight in court on these things. Evidently, that must be true.

Dec 4th 2012 new
Tom, many men (and women) get pulled through the ringer of Csea. I agree that David is right that you won't win in court. If you are smart and determined there are a few things you can do. Accept that Csea or whatever they call it in ca is just like every other state....it's founded on fundamentally flawed logic and irrational financial notions under the guise of doing right by the children. It's an exercise in futility to fight them in court. Here are a few alternatives. 1. See if your state has any administrative appeal processes. Call them and ask for a full audit on your account. 2. Write to your state rep and reps in federal govt. keep the letter less than two pages and have a good executive summary in the beginning which capusulates the letter in a paragraph or two. Never underestimate the power of a well written letter to the right legislator. 3. And most important. Pray. sure these alternatives aren't likely to yield the desired result (your money back) but they're one of the many options afforded to us as Americans when dealing w an overreaching govt. Good luck.
Dec 4th 2012 new

(Quote) John-875813 said: it's founded on fundamentally flawed logic and irrational financial notions under the guise of doing ...
(Quote) John-875813 said: it's founded on fundamentally flawed logic and irrational financial notions under the guise of doing right by the children. It's an exercise in futility to fight them in court.

--hide--
Thanks, John, and well said. They violated my civil liberties, I wrote to the director of the agency, spoke to his assigned ombudsman, involved three "conservative" legislators, and I would still LOSE in court. Still, I will be filing my Motion to Dismiss this week even though some of the money was refunded to me two days ago. It is a minor victory, enough to see that the government still operates with a degree of justice. It won't be long before everyone heels to the GOV.

Another dad--this one a physician who has been married three times--said it best when I asked why ex-spouses can be wrong, unethical, and still go to the DCSS and WIN, and he said "Because they can." The law is in place to solve problems, but it has created a new class of "cheaters and crooks."

Dec 5th 2012 new

Dear Tom,

I am an attorney, and I would agree with the advice to let it go and move forward. Although you plan on handling the case on your own and would therefore avoid attorney's fees, non-lawyers often lack the understanding necessary to prevail. Even if you would prevail the minutes in your life that you would expend to sue for $2,000.00 have value as well. You need to consider how much time you will be expending on not only going to court, but preparing all necessary documentation, researching the law regarding your suit, etc. I would also suggest thinking about the sheer frustration of the whole matter as peace is a valuable item as well.

If you are determined to proceed I would perhaps suggest approaching a local law school. Students are oftentimes willing to offer their time researching and preparing documents, etc., in matters such as yours to gain experience. Of course, they are not giving you actual "legal advice" since they are not yet licensed practicing attorney's but they might be willing to take a position of assistance to your work. Also, may law schools have "clinics" set up which allow for students to practice before different courts under another licenced attorney.


It might also be interesting to see if there are other people in your situation that would possibly qualify for a class action suit. I would perhaps just simply start with a demand letter to the State setting forth your claim and making demand for refund. You could also contact the Attorney General's office to see if they could offer assistance.

Good luck no matter which choice you make. As a person who has been practicing law for over 20 years I would stay out of courtroom in my personal life at almost any cost.

Dec 5th 2012 new

(Quote) KiAnn-881734 said: Good luck no matter which choice you make. As a person who has been practicing law for over 20 ye...
(Quote) KiAnn-881734 said:

Good luck no matter which choice you make. As a person who has been practicing law for over 20 years I would stay out of courtroom in my personal life at almost any cost.

--hide--
Thank you for your suggestions, but I am not sure you read my post which said I am filing a Motion to Dismiss. Doesn't this mean I am dropping the OSC, which my court now calls, RFO--Request For Order? So, I am confused that you and David are still telling me to drop the matter when I think that is what I am doing.

Responding to your suggestions about getting assistance, I did go to a legal workshop for us "do-it-yourselfers" and spoke with two facilitators; I also spent time in the city law library where I found statutes relative to my case and found some interesting things. All in all, I thought my declaration was well written and stated some obvious points for my case. David, as an attorney, confirmed my own suspicions that there is much more to the law than I thought, and the law is certainly not black and white.

So, can I assume once I have filed the Motion to Dismiss that this is all over and done with?

Thank you again for looking out for my best interests and for offering your suggestions. BTW, I have thought about setting up some kind of "fairness" organization, a website, if you will, that might bring together men and women to possibly seek a class action and to help the poor souls who are victims of a law that doesn't discern, morally, in each and every case. I cannot tell everyone here just how cogent Jeffersons words are, and how I felt at the time when the agency clamped down on me:

"Liberty is when the government fears the people. Tyranny is when it is the other way around."

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